Post by WalksInSpirit on Feb 1, 2006 5:57:39 GMT -5
Astrology Chat: 01-30-06
(02:09:00) (ron) been studying the first three (lower ) centers...trying to make clear in my mind...not an easy topic...but am getting some clarifications
(02:10:09) (ron) i'm studying with you people...i'm very interest in your ideas...your interpretations...good for all of us to share
(02:15:36) (ron) so, the White Horse symbol for the Gonad center is pure and not, as yet, changed by personal desires...this is the Seat of Desire, by the way...as if you all didn't know ...:)
(02:16:55) (ron) this center is given the color of Red...the lowest vibration in the spectrum of colors...thus the the white force is changed to human desires and basic instincts
(02:17:42) (Qrious) talking about chakras?
(02:17:50) (ron) this white force is also known as the Life Force in the universe and in mankind
(02:19:27) (ron) known by some as Cosmic Prana...and in mankind as Etheric Principle in mankind...the life giving, animating principle of the universe...Biblically know as the Spirit of God
(02:20:25) (ron) this spiritual purpose was activated when God "moved"...this gave purpose and life to all that was, is, and ever will be
(02:20:27) (Blu) So are we trying to turn the red center White?
(02:21:54) (ron) perhaps so, Blu...but that depends on Intent...how we are going to use this energy...how we apply these inner energies
(02:22:06) (ron) this*
(02:22:29) (Solya) I think, to eliminate the red color would unbalance the body
(02:22:49) (Qrious) well, Blu, when Cayce was walking around the room with alot of people in an awakened state.. he'd look at the aura's.. and one of them.. a lady's was white.. and he told her that her prayers were being answered.. so I guess yes.
(02:22:51) (Solya) Each thing, in its place, is best. I think
(02:23:01) (ron) for selfish purposes and for others...this creative energy is to be shared with all...not just for our own needs and personal gratifications
(02:24:02) (ron) there is more of my own thoughts on these 2 centers that we already did...i can keep going...but there is another center...the adrenals to start today
(02:25:51) (ron) i haven't covered Saturn's role here...to "remold"...to to get rid of selfish responses, old habits and old fixed ideas that has been holding us back
(02:27:32) (ron) the emblem here is the White Horse...while the Black Horse symbolizes death...what has to die within us that has been with us since our early experimentations on this earth
(02:27:41) (Qrious) please continue ron.. I would like to learn more.
(02:28:15) (ron) should just continue with my own thoughts on this center?...and, perhaps the Lyden center?
(02:28:35) (Blu) yes, please
(02:28:35) (Solya) yes
(02:28:39) (Qrious) whatever feels right ron.
(02:29:21) (ron) ok...my interpretation on when the Spirit of God...when it moved...first chap. first verse
(02:32:02) (ron) the readings told me, as i understood it, that one of the interpretations is that the Spirit is a symbol of purpose...the purpose of creation...like the readings mentioned, "the Spirit of St. Louis...early experimentations of flight...that is that there is a purpose to life and the universe...and all is in the mind of God from the beginning...even before manifestation...creative beginnings
(02:33:02) (Solya) very good
(02:34:10) (Blu) This is very synchronistic for me, very cool Ron
(02:34:29) (ron) Spirit is also the known as the Life Principle...that what animates all things from the lowest to the highest and with a single purpose...cause there isn't anything that is not without the spirit of God...i know we all know this
(02:34:30) (Solya) expressing the latent perhaps?
(02:36:02) (ron) the red vibration, to get back, is to stimulate the reproductive forces, sexual activity in all its aspects, OR ANY DESIRE whether is abused or not
(02:37:11) (Solya) thats why the red needs to remain red, according to my deduction.
(02:37:11) (Solya) thats why the red needs to remain red, according to my deduction.
(02:37:21) (ron) This is where the readings say we commit adultery. ...that is our intentions might be selfish indulgences, not caring about the sensitivies of another, or others
(02:38:50) (Qrious) wouldn't that be covered under the be fruitful and multiply thing ron?
(02:39:33) (ron) the word BREAD as given by the readings from the Lord's Prayer, suggests that this is means we are given what we need and can digest...anything more than that might suggest that we are becoming selfish and want more than what we really need
(02:41:06) (ron) generally, the readings seem to indicate to me that the Angels are the forced in charge, working thru these centers...either faithfully or unfaithfully...
(02:42:10) (ron) when faithfully is considered a Virtue for that particular center...to be Unfaithful is considered to be its Weakness and not carrying out its responsibility
(02:42:56) (Solya) the plus and minus of the same energy?
(02:43:29) (Qrious) well, in the book of Jude, I believe, the Angels that left their first abode to mate with the daughters of man were imprisoned for it. Fyi.
(02:43:49) (ron) that is what i've been thinking about for the past few days...i know i will have more...but that is the best of my understanding right now...i hope there was something of value given...and i'm sorry for such poor sentencing and typos
(02:44:06) (diane) no prob
(02:44:17) (diane) good work, ron. ty
(02:44:22) (Solya) ron, you do not know how informative and how beautiful you are. You are one of my most valued teachers.
(02:44:37) (Solya) adn that is truth.
(02:44:42) (diane) they angels mated with the dom. and there were giants in the earth, right Q
(02:44:54) (ron) i'm open to suggestions and insights from all of you...so don't hesitate
(02:44:56) (Qrious) no prob ron.. read ya just fine.
(02:45:06) (Solya) mean it?
(02:45:45) (Solya) These forces can regenerate and heal.
(02:45:54) (Solya) If circulated throughout the body.
(02:46:07) (Solya) Not wasted or expended without use.
(02:46:12) (ron) to me, what Q is really talking about are the souls that entered the earth for self-gratification...for selfish purposes...and that is about all i get right now
(02:46:17) (Solya) Directed energies to create and manifest.
(02:46:47) (Solya) I can´t be graphic, but I can hint. at secrets of revitalization
(02:47:13) (Qrious) well. . your comparison to the Angels and sensualness.. just made me think of it ron.
(02:47:22) (ron) heal, yes solya...but this healing process is a lot faster thru one's meditations...like in the book Secret of the Golden Flower...one mediation will remove a 1000 lifetimes
(02:47:43) (Solya) what do I meditate on, book gotta get it
(02:47:59) (ron) angles, in this case, are simply souls...i don’t take that literally
(02:48:08) (diane) not familiar with that book, ron
(02:48:25) (Solya) I´ll order the book today.
(02:48:47) (ron) no, solya,,,buy ARE book Meditation: the Gateway to Light...that is all that is needed
(02:48:52) (Solya) Oh, what I must not say about angels and demons and laughter and creation and regeneration.
(02:49:19) (Solya) ok ron, I´ll get it.
(02:49:56) (ron) that biblical note ...as mentioned above on angels...i don't take that literally
(02:50:32) (Solya) you don´t. lol
(02:50:36) (Solya) I do
(02:50:51) (diane) What is book...Secret of the Golden Flower?
(02:51:01) (ron) should i go to astrology?...or do you want to start on the church of Pergamos, the adrenals?
(02:51:04) (Blu) I have that book
(02:51:16) (Qrious) Pergamos.
(02:51:17) (Solya) ron, I found outg my Chiron is in Leo 12th house
(02:51:28) (Blu) Pergamos
(02:51:34) (ron) it is the Chinese view of meditation etc
(02:51:53) (diane) ty
(02:51:59) (ron) ok pergamos
(02:52:04) (diane) ok
(02:52:04) (ron) one moment
(02:52:07) (Solya) ok
(02:52:12) (Solya) I desire that
(02:52:29) (Blu) I saw a good explanation of that book somewhere Diane, if I find it again I will send it to you.
(02:52:48) (ron) rather ancient Chinese meditation...as a matter of fact...roz is going to refer to that book soon
(02:54:27) (diane) sounds interesting Blu, ty
(02:55:20) (ron) sorry that i didn't do a better presentation on my thoughts on this subject...i didn't know i was going to do this ...all was unexpected
(02:55:23) (ron) THE CHURCH IN PERGAMOS
(02:55:38) (ron) VIRTUE-Faithful VISION-Red horse FAULT-Stumbling block LORD’S PRAYER-Debts
(02:55:53) (Solya) Ron, your presentation helped me. thank you
(02:55:59) (ron) PLANET-Mars ELEMENT-Fire EARTHLY INFLUENCE-Preservation
(02:56:11) (ron) BEASTLY SYMBOL-Lion MENTAL PROCESS-Ideas/memory COLOR-Yellow
(02:56:35) (ron) Verses 12 through 17 present messages from the Son of man to the angel of the activities at or through the solar plexus area of the body. This center might be said to be controlled by the adrenal glands but the whole solar plexus area is involved in all our reactions. The solar plexus relates to the "debts" in the Lord's Prayer. When we consider the debts we owe, not just to others
(02:57:17) (ron) but to ourselves - our memories and how we have used or abused the creative and natural forces - we may better understand the prayer, for this center is said to be the storehouse of memories, or karma. The memories of how we have acted (the SPIRIT in which we acted, the IDEAS used,
(02:57:46) (ron) and their PURPOSES) in whatever situation must be called to mind, remembered, or else we could never recall what we have done. In fact, we would never know anything except for memory, for we can only recognize a thing because we REMEMBER it.
(02:59:09) (ron) While we may consider the solar plexus to be the storehouse of karma and memories, it is not necessarily the PHYSICAL CELLULAR storeroom of such. While it is easy to think of memories being stored in the cells of the brain, as is usually thought, it is only logical to consider every body cell a complete storehouse of such. Memories can be stored in ANY cells in the body
(02:59:35) (Solya) true
(02:59:40) (ron) and, when so recalled by mind, are then acted upon through the solar plexus. This center is the BODY ACTIVATING seat for our expressions and where the body as a whole meets its memories. (It should be noted that this area is the CENTER of us in more ways than just geometrically.)
(03:00:23) (ron) The flow of memory from its storehouse (in the body cells), via the endocrine system (or the nerves) to the mind where it is processed at the pineal level BEFORE the choice of response is made, is the reason for the fear which causes the hurts in the solar plexus when we are faced with possible great personal loss - the fear of loss of a loved concept, of an image, even though it
(03:00:58) (ron) might be related to a close relative or person dear to us (which also can be an ideal). We fear to face the loss of a personal and dear concept which would really be a loss of the self's personal identity with the ego - with what we claim as being OUR OWN. Hence it should be clear that we are our memories and they ARE US - and we created them.
(03:01:37) (ron) There is great virtue attached to this center's activity and that is its faithfulness. The glandular activity is FAITHFUL to both the storage and recall of WHATEVER memory it is called upon to handle as a reaction to our choices. This virtue brings to mind, faithfully, those memories we have chosen as the criteria for responses previously chosen, which we identify with as BEING us,
(03:02:14) (ron) those PORTIONS to which we have attached our life as being us: our temperaments, our habits, etc. These are usually stumbling blocks; for by holding too long to fixed ideas, and thus, in effect, retarding our growth, we are caught at THAT level of awareness. As long as we hold to fixed ideas there cannot be a new consciousness.
(03:03:40) (ron) These fixed concepts are the rulers of us, of the beast, and the love of same is symbolized by the lion - the king of the beasts. Yet it is through the RED HORSE, the symbol of the force that has power to take peace from us (Chapter 6) that we must meet and justify the ideas that we hold to.
(03:04:34) (ron) The fire is the purifying force in nature by which there is tested the worth of what we do to others - our ideas. Hence while the activity of the horse and justice are red (fire), it is testing the FORMED ideas which are the yellow (ideas) in the rainbow. This idea is more fully explained in my VIBRATIONS study relating to the color of the earth forces; yet the earth forces (red) created
(03:05:14) (ron) the idea (yellow) and both must be proved or tested at the memory level by expressing our creative efforts . We are trying to preserve these ideas, for they are ours, just as are our children and hence are sometimes held too long.
(03:05:46) (ron) The way the forces and memories move about the body might seem as in a vicious circle. And it is, except that when we recognize that MARS - the force of madness (900-10) - refers to us also, then we may be led to accept the justification of what we have built or turn it loose and come up with a new or different way of acting, thinking, etc. But here again we are using justice (fire) to
(03:06:33) (ron) purify our memories and habit patterns, and these are really our debts -to the creator of us - which is us. Thus a question should be asked - to whom should we pray to forgive us of our debts? Since we are responsible (through patience) for our creations, would it not be logical to ask us to forgive us for what is not worthy of our efforts? Remember, only we can judge the worth of what
(03:07:14) (ron) we do, or what we are asked to do, and we do this through the balancing of what we do for self or "for others." Hence we can see the RESPONSIBILITY at the higher level of mind in the color violet which is the activity seated in the pituitary.
(03:07:46) (ron) From the above it may be seen why the activities attendant upon the symbols are active in this center. They are the real activities going on within us.
(03:08:08) (ron) 12: And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write: These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;
(03:08:40) (ron) The angel here is the planetary force we call Mars, or the god of war. Action taken by us to preserve our most precious possessions is certainly madness as well as a warring - as we protect, preserve and fight for our self-identity.
(03:09:17) (ron) ok...so the Planetary forces are the Angels
(03:09:55) (ron) The readings say "Mars - as of madness." (900~1O) Also, "For the inclinations from the Martian influences are for anger to arise easily in the experiences when the entity is fraught [frustrated] in its activities, in the associations, in its determinations." (1434-1)
(03:10:36) (ron) In this it is easily seen that Mars has to do with anger and this is generally recognized as an adrenal activity - the fight-or-flight syndrome.
(03:11:04) (ron) The description added to that given in Rev. 1: 16 above helps to clarify that verse in that the two-edged sword has something to do with the adrenals, or the solar complex. Of course there are two adrenal glands, one on top of each kidney, and there could well be some relationship between
(03:11:33) (ron) those two glands and the two edges, since the two are controlled by the two brain hemispheres. I believe, however, that the two edges refer more to the choices - for self or "for others." This idea seems to be borne out in the following verses.
(03:11:58) (ron) 13: I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
(03:12:28) (ron) Jesus, as the Son of man, knew the "works" of the forces of Mars' activity, just as he knew those of Saturn and Neptune, for they had become his servants. "Where thou dwellest" is in the memories working through the adrenals and the solar complex; yet the anger is caused by the arousal of memories and we, in reality, are angry at OUR MEMORIES and NOT at what we
(03:13:01) (ron) think caused the anger, for should the memory aroused be a pleasant one we would not be angry. We PROJECT our anger at others, for we try to avoid responsibility for what we do that they do not like. I am convinced that the adrenal complex is NOT the seat of Satan because of the activity portrayed in the church of Thyatira section and the last phrase in this verse, "where Satan dwelleth."
(03:13:41) (ron) The memory force in the Son of man had held fast to the saving factor embodied in the name of Jesus - in the memories - and there was no denial of faith in him or his memories. Apparently the Son of man remembered a martyrdom of one called Antipas but there seems no other reference in the Bible to that name. There is the speculation that this slaying of Antipas may have been
(03:14:11) (ron) referring to the martyrdom of Jesus himself for he is referred to as the faithful witness in Rev. 1:5 and 3:14; and in John's day MARTYR and WITNESS (for Christ) were seemingly used to mean the same thing.
(03:14:45) (ron) In this light the memory of the faithful witness is being spoken of as when the EGO OF JESUS was faithful to the idea of its crucifixion, as was needed by the Son of man before he overcame the flesh. If Antipas could have been this faithful witness, just as in 1:5 and 3: 14, then this (in Jesus) was a faithful witness even through the martyrdom of the same. This seems particularly
(03:14:49) (Qrious) the seat where Satan dwelleth would refer to his throne wouldn't it?
(03:15:31) (ron) apropos in view of the slaying having occurred "among you, where Satan dwelleth," which is where his seat is.
(03:16:02) (ron) guess, where satan dwelleth
(03:16:17) (ron) 14: But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
(03:16:37) (Qrious) the adrenals so far it seems.
(03:16:52) (ron) i interpret to mean in mankind
(03:17:17) (ron) "A few things against thee" is similar to that against the other angels. These are all in the vein of the operation of the glandular centers and will become more clear as we study the whole of The Revelation.
(03:17:40) (Solya) this reference to ego of Jesus , I think, shows how I can use my ego to promote my ideals
(03:17:52) (ron) "Thou hast there them" are the memories which in effect force us to act in ways which are inimical to the self - the soul - for they hold to the doctrine proclaimed by Balaam (Num. 22:37 to 24:25) of placing stumbling stones in the way of the children of Israel. These memories have as a basis the urges to worship idols which we follow as we in effect hold so fast to a fixed idea
(03:18:00) (ron) yes solya
(03:18:19) (Qrious) whatever happened to deny thyself and take up your cross.. lol
(03:18:29) (Solya) its not that ego is bad, its how you use it. Is that correct, Ron?
(03:18:50) (ron) that we come to believe it is from God Himself. We create such concepts in us, although we may merely be following a teacher (such as Balaam). Our belief determines the extent to which we might worship such. Such concepts (and thus forms of thought) which we create as rules of conduct (sometimes considered ideals) become as idols which we hallow. In this we
(03:19:06) (Solya) If you have an ideal, Q, that has ego supporting it, you will gleefully take up your cross.
(03:19:33) (Qrious) you do know what the cross is for don't ya..
(03:19:42) (ron) INWARDLY act out the historical doctrine of Balaam - just as we are caught in time in the Garden of Eden when we disclaim responsibility for our actions and in effect say' 'the Devil made me do it." Our actions are stumbling blocks to us and our growth process toward understanding just what we OUGHT to do.
(03:19:53) (Solya) Q, the cross is to attain the resurrection.
(03:20:01) (ron) INWARDLY act out the historical doctrine of Balaam - just as we are caught in time in the Garden of Eden when we disclaim responsibility for our actions and in effect say' 'the Devil made me do it." Our actions are stumbling blocks to us and our growth process toward understanding just what we OUGHT to do.
(03:20:39) (ron) It was also the doctrine of Balaam which led to the teaching of "eating things sacrificed to idols. " Beliefs as memories can lead us to like, to live with and (as a GROWTH experience) to digest the false idea that we can avoid responsibility because of our worship of idols, the images we
(03:20:39) (Qrious) uh.. Jesus is the resurrection.. he said that before he called Lazaruz out of the tomb.. not when he was on the cross.
(03:21:03) (Solya) yep
(03:21:17) (ron) build - ideas we hold fast to, which we claim to be most meritorious, that are of God; but in essence they are stumbling stones to progress. These are self-delusions which feed the ego.
(03:21:56) (ron) It is by this same self-deluding process that we commit fornication - which seems to be in the vein of a vicarious adulterous action - when we blithely allow other memories to stimulate or
(03:21:58) (Solya) Therefore, an ideal is the carrot before the donkey.
(03:22:07) (Solya) It helps to know what your carrot is.
(03:22:15) (ron) adulterate the creative energy which otherwise could remain pure. We conveniently blame others for our adulterous actions but claim them to be for worthy or ideal causes. Fornication is a devious way to accept adultery and feel justified and righteous about it.
(03:22:56) (ron) 15: So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate.
(03:23:08) (ron) This again is a reference to, as in verse 6 above, the Nicolaitanes who are said to have defended and practiced immorality. These kinds of acts are outlined in the discussion under verse 14. These acts are the kinds of things which the Son of man must hate. The verse seems self-explanatory when placed with the definition of the Nicolaitanes.
(03:23:09) (Solya) Thats one thing I got out of Scientology, It is shameful to blame another.
(03:23:34) (JohnB) whats the dayly illusion of today?
(03:23:37) (Solya) I aint giving away my cause!
(03:23:59) (ron) 16: Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
(02:10:09) (ron) i'm studying with you people...i'm very interest in your ideas...your interpretations...good for all of us to share
(02:15:36) (ron) so, the White Horse symbol for the Gonad center is pure and not, as yet, changed by personal desires...this is the Seat of Desire, by the way...as if you all didn't know ...:)
(02:16:55) (ron) this center is given the color of Red...the lowest vibration in the spectrum of colors...thus the the white force is changed to human desires and basic instincts
(02:17:42) (Qrious) talking about chakras?
(02:17:50) (ron) this white force is also known as the Life Force in the universe and in mankind
(02:19:27) (ron) known by some as Cosmic Prana...and in mankind as Etheric Principle in mankind...the life giving, animating principle of the universe...Biblically know as the Spirit of God
(02:20:25) (ron) this spiritual purpose was activated when God "moved"...this gave purpose and life to all that was, is, and ever will be
(02:20:27) (Blu) So are we trying to turn the red center White?
(02:21:54) (ron) perhaps so, Blu...but that depends on Intent...how we are going to use this energy...how we apply these inner energies
(02:22:06) (ron) this*
(02:22:29) (Solya) I think, to eliminate the red color would unbalance the body
(02:22:49) (Qrious) well, Blu, when Cayce was walking around the room with alot of people in an awakened state.. he'd look at the aura's.. and one of them.. a lady's was white.. and he told her that her prayers were being answered.. so I guess yes.
(02:22:51) (Solya) Each thing, in its place, is best. I think
(02:23:01) (ron) for selfish purposes and for others...this creative energy is to be shared with all...not just for our own needs and personal gratifications
(02:24:02) (ron) there is more of my own thoughts on these 2 centers that we already did...i can keep going...but there is another center...the adrenals to start today
(02:25:51) (ron) i haven't covered Saturn's role here...to "remold"...to to get rid of selfish responses, old habits and old fixed ideas that has been holding us back
(02:27:32) (ron) the emblem here is the White Horse...while the Black Horse symbolizes death...what has to die within us that has been with us since our early experimentations on this earth
(02:27:41) (Qrious) please continue ron.. I would like to learn more.
(02:28:15) (ron) should just continue with my own thoughts on this center?...and, perhaps the Lyden center?
(02:28:35) (Blu) yes, please
(02:28:35) (Solya) yes
(02:28:39) (Qrious) whatever feels right ron.
(02:29:21) (ron) ok...my interpretation on when the Spirit of God...when it moved...first chap. first verse
(02:32:02) (ron) the readings told me, as i understood it, that one of the interpretations is that the Spirit is a symbol of purpose...the purpose of creation...like the readings mentioned, "the Spirit of St. Louis...early experimentations of flight...that is that there is a purpose to life and the universe...and all is in the mind of God from the beginning...even before manifestation...creative beginnings
(02:33:02) (Solya) very good
(02:34:10) (Blu) This is very synchronistic for me, very cool Ron
(02:34:29) (ron) Spirit is also the known as the Life Principle...that what animates all things from the lowest to the highest and with a single purpose...cause there isn't anything that is not without the spirit of God...i know we all know this
(02:34:30) (Solya) expressing the latent perhaps?
(02:36:02) (ron) the red vibration, to get back, is to stimulate the reproductive forces, sexual activity in all its aspects, OR ANY DESIRE whether is abused or not
(02:37:11) (Solya) thats why the red needs to remain red, according to my deduction.
(02:37:11) (Solya) thats why the red needs to remain red, according to my deduction.
(02:37:21) (ron) This is where the readings say we commit adultery. ...that is our intentions might be selfish indulgences, not caring about the sensitivies of another, or others
(02:38:50) (Qrious) wouldn't that be covered under the be fruitful and multiply thing ron?
(02:39:33) (ron) the word BREAD as given by the readings from the Lord's Prayer, suggests that this is means we are given what we need and can digest...anything more than that might suggest that we are becoming selfish and want more than what we really need
(02:41:06) (ron) generally, the readings seem to indicate to me that the Angels are the forced in charge, working thru these centers...either faithfully or unfaithfully...
(02:42:10) (ron) when faithfully is considered a Virtue for that particular center...to be Unfaithful is considered to be its Weakness and not carrying out its responsibility
(02:42:56) (Solya) the plus and minus of the same energy?
(02:43:29) (Qrious) well, in the book of Jude, I believe, the Angels that left their first abode to mate with the daughters of man were imprisoned for it. Fyi.
(02:43:49) (ron) that is what i've been thinking about for the past few days...i know i will have more...but that is the best of my understanding right now...i hope there was something of value given...and i'm sorry for such poor sentencing and typos
(02:44:06) (diane) no prob
(02:44:17) (diane) good work, ron. ty
(02:44:22) (Solya) ron, you do not know how informative and how beautiful you are. You are one of my most valued teachers.
(02:44:37) (Solya) adn that is truth.
(02:44:42) (diane) they angels mated with the dom. and there were giants in the earth, right Q
(02:44:54) (ron) i'm open to suggestions and insights from all of you...so don't hesitate
(02:44:56) (Qrious) no prob ron.. read ya just fine.
(02:45:06) (Solya) mean it?
(02:45:45) (Solya) These forces can regenerate and heal.
(02:45:54) (Solya) If circulated throughout the body.
(02:46:07) (Solya) Not wasted or expended without use.
(02:46:12) (ron) to me, what Q is really talking about are the souls that entered the earth for self-gratification...for selfish purposes...and that is about all i get right now
(02:46:17) (Solya) Directed energies to create and manifest.
(02:46:47) (Solya) I can´t be graphic, but I can hint. at secrets of revitalization
(02:47:13) (Qrious) well. . your comparison to the Angels and sensualness.. just made me think of it ron.
(02:47:22) (ron) heal, yes solya...but this healing process is a lot faster thru one's meditations...like in the book Secret of the Golden Flower...one mediation will remove a 1000 lifetimes
(02:47:43) (Solya) what do I meditate on, book gotta get it
(02:47:59) (ron) angles, in this case, are simply souls...i don’t take that literally
(02:48:08) (diane) not familiar with that book, ron
(02:48:25) (Solya) I´ll order the book today.
(02:48:47) (ron) no, solya,,,buy ARE book Meditation: the Gateway to Light...that is all that is needed
(02:48:52) (Solya) Oh, what I must not say about angels and demons and laughter and creation and regeneration.
(02:49:19) (Solya) ok ron, I´ll get it.
(02:49:56) (ron) that biblical note ...as mentioned above on angels...i don't take that literally
(02:50:32) (Solya) you don´t. lol
(02:50:36) (Solya) I do
(02:50:51) (diane) What is book...Secret of the Golden Flower?
(02:51:01) (ron) should i go to astrology?...or do you want to start on the church of Pergamos, the adrenals?
(02:51:04) (Blu) I have that book
(02:51:16) (Qrious) Pergamos.
(02:51:17) (Solya) ron, I found outg my Chiron is in Leo 12th house
(02:51:28) (Blu) Pergamos
(02:51:34) (ron) it is the Chinese view of meditation etc
(02:51:53) (diane) ty
(02:51:59) (ron) ok pergamos
(02:52:04) (diane) ok
(02:52:04) (ron) one moment
(02:52:07) (Solya) ok
(02:52:12) (Solya) I desire that
(02:52:29) (Blu) I saw a good explanation of that book somewhere Diane, if I find it again I will send it to you.
(02:52:48) (ron) rather ancient Chinese meditation...as a matter of fact...roz is going to refer to that book soon
(02:54:27) (diane) sounds interesting Blu, ty
(02:55:20) (ron) sorry that i didn't do a better presentation on my thoughts on this subject...i didn't know i was going to do this ...all was unexpected
(02:55:23) (ron) THE CHURCH IN PERGAMOS
(02:55:38) (ron) VIRTUE-Faithful VISION-Red horse FAULT-Stumbling block LORD’S PRAYER-Debts
(02:55:53) (Solya) Ron, your presentation helped me. thank you
(02:55:59) (ron) PLANET-Mars ELEMENT-Fire EARTHLY INFLUENCE-Preservation
(02:56:11) (ron) BEASTLY SYMBOL-Lion MENTAL PROCESS-Ideas/memory COLOR-Yellow
(02:56:35) (ron) Verses 12 through 17 present messages from the Son of man to the angel of the activities at or through the solar plexus area of the body. This center might be said to be controlled by the adrenal glands but the whole solar plexus area is involved in all our reactions. The solar plexus relates to the "debts" in the Lord's Prayer. When we consider the debts we owe, not just to others
(02:57:17) (ron) but to ourselves - our memories and how we have used or abused the creative and natural forces - we may better understand the prayer, for this center is said to be the storehouse of memories, or karma. The memories of how we have acted (the SPIRIT in which we acted, the IDEAS used,
(02:57:46) (ron) and their PURPOSES) in whatever situation must be called to mind, remembered, or else we could never recall what we have done. In fact, we would never know anything except for memory, for we can only recognize a thing because we REMEMBER it.
(02:59:09) (ron) While we may consider the solar plexus to be the storehouse of karma and memories, it is not necessarily the PHYSICAL CELLULAR storeroom of such. While it is easy to think of memories being stored in the cells of the brain, as is usually thought, it is only logical to consider every body cell a complete storehouse of such. Memories can be stored in ANY cells in the body
(02:59:35) (Solya) true
(02:59:40) (ron) and, when so recalled by mind, are then acted upon through the solar plexus. This center is the BODY ACTIVATING seat for our expressions and where the body as a whole meets its memories. (It should be noted that this area is the CENTER of us in more ways than just geometrically.)
(03:00:23) (ron) The flow of memory from its storehouse (in the body cells), via the endocrine system (or the nerves) to the mind where it is processed at the pineal level BEFORE the choice of response is made, is the reason for the fear which causes the hurts in the solar plexus when we are faced with possible great personal loss - the fear of loss of a loved concept, of an image, even though it
(03:00:58) (ron) might be related to a close relative or person dear to us (which also can be an ideal). We fear to face the loss of a personal and dear concept which would really be a loss of the self's personal identity with the ego - with what we claim as being OUR OWN. Hence it should be clear that we are our memories and they ARE US - and we created them.
(03:01:37) (ron) There is great virtue attached to this center's activity and that is its faithfulness. The glandular activity is FAITHFUL to both the storage and recall of WHATEVER memory it is called upon to handle as a reaction to our choices. This virtue brings to mind, faithfully, those memories we have chosen as the criteria for responses previously chosen, which we identify with as BEING us,
(03:02:14) (ron) those PORTIONS to which we have attached our life as being us: our temperaments, our habits, etc. These are usually stumbling blocks; for by holding too long to fixed ideas, and thus, in effect, retarding our growth, we are caught at THAT level of awareness. As long as we hold to fixed ideas there cannot be a new consciousness.
(03:03:40) (ron) These fixed concepts are the rulers of us, of the beast, and the love of same is symbolized by the lion - the king of the beasts. Yet it is through the RED HORSE, the symbol of the force that has power to take peace from us (Chapter 6) that we must meet and justify the ideas that we hold to.
(03:04:34) (ron) The fire is the purifying force in nature by which there is tested the worth of what we do to others - our ideas. Hence while the activity of the horse and justice are red (fire), it is testing the FORMED ideas which are the yellow (ideas) in the rainbow. This idea is more fully explained in my VIBRATIONS study relating to the color of the earth forces; yet the earth forces (red) created
(03:05:14) (ron) the idea (yellow) and both must be proved or tested at the memory level by expressing our creative efforts . We are trying to preserve these ideas, for they are ours, just as are our children and hence are sometimes held too long.
(03:05:46) (ron) The way the forces and memories move about the body might seem as in a vicious circle. And it is, except that when we recognize that MARS - the force of madness (900-10) - refers to us also, then we may be led to accept the justification of what we have built or turn it loose and come up with a new or different way of acting, thinking, etc. But here again we are using justice (fire) to
(03:06:33) (ron) purify our memories and habit patterns, and these are really our debts -to the creator of us - which is us. Thus a question should be asked - to whom should we pray to forgive us of our debts? Since we are responsible (through patience) for our creations, would it not be logical to ask us to forgive us for what is not worthy of our efforts? Remember, only we can judge the worth of what
(03:07:14) (ron) we do, or what we are asked to do, and we do this through the balancing of what we do for self or "for others." Hence we can see the RESPONSIBILITY at the higher level of mind in the color violet which is the activity seated in the pituitary.
(03:07:46) (ron) From the above it may be seen why the activities attendant upon the symbols are active in this center. They are the real activities going on within us.
(03:08:08) (ron) 12: And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write: These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;
(03:08:40) (ron) The angel here is the planetary force we call Mars, or the god of war. Action taken by us to preserve our most precious possessions is certainly madness as well as a warring - as we protect, preserve and fight for our self-identity.
(03:09:17) (ron) ok...so the Planetary forces are the Angels
(03:09:55) (ron) The readings say "Mars - as of madness." (900~1O) Also, "For the inclinations from the Martian influences are for anger to arise easily in the experiences when the entity is fraught [frustrated] in its activities, in the associations, in its determinations." (1434-1)
(03:10:36) (ron) In this it is easily seen that Mars has to do with anger and this is generally recognized as an adrenal activity - the fight-or-flight syndrome.
(03:11:04) (ron) The description added to that given in Rev. 1: 16 above helps to clarify that verse in that the two-edged sword has something to do with the adrenals, or the solar complex. Of course there are two adrenal glands, one on top of each kidney, and there could well be some relationship between
(03:11:33) (ron) those two glands and the two edges, since the two are controlled by the two brain hemispheres. I believe, however, that the two edges refer more to the choices - for self or "for others." This idea seems to be borne out in the following verses.
(03:11:58) (ron) 13: I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
(03:12:28) (ron) Jesus, as the Son of man, knew the "works" of the forces of Mars' activity, just as he knew those of Saturn and Neptune, for they had become his servants. "Where thou dwellest" is in the memories working through the adrenals and the solar complex; yet the anger is caused by the arousal of memories and we, in reality, are angry at OUR MEMORIES and NOT at what we
(03:13:01) (ron) think caused the anger, for should the memory aroused be a pleasant one we would not be angry. We PROJECT our anger at others, for we try to avoid responsibility for what we do that they do not like. I am convinced that the adrenal complex is NOT the seat of Satan because of the activity portrayed in the church of Thyatira section and the last phrase in this verse, "where Satan dwelleth."
(03:13:41) (ron) The memory force in the Son of man had held fast to the saving factor embodied in the name of Jesus - in the memories - and there was no denial of faith in him or his memories. Apparently the Son of man remembered a martyrdom of one called Antipas but there seems no other reference in the Bible to that name. There is the speculation that this slaying of Antipas may have been
(03:14:11) (ron) referring to the martyrdom of Jesus himself for he is referred to as the faithful witness in Rev. 1:5 and 3:14; and in John's day MARTYR and WITNESS (for Christ) were seemingly used to mean the same thing.
(03:14:45) (ron) In this light the memory of the faithful witness is being spoken of as when the EGO OF JESUS was faithful to the idea of its crucifixion, as was needed by the Son of man before he overcame the flesh. If Antipas could have been this faithful witness, just as in 1:5 and 3: 14, then this (in Jesus) was a faithful witness even through the martyrdom of the same. This seems particularly
(03:14:49) (Qrious) the seat where Satan dwelleth would refer to his throne wouldn't it?
(03:15:31) (ron) apropos in view of the slaying having occurred "among you, where Satan dwelleth," which is where his seat is.
(03:16:02) (ron) guess, where satan dwelleth
(03:16:17) (ron) 14: But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
(03:16:37) (Qrious) the adrenals so far it seems.
(03:16:52) (ron) i interpret to mean in mankind
(03:17:17) (ron) "A few things against thee" is similar to that against the other angels. These are all in the vein of the operation of the glandular centers and will become more clear as we study the whole of The Revelation.
(03:17:40) (Solya) this reference to ego of Jesus , I think, shows how I can use my ego to promote my ideals
(03:17:52) (ron) "Thou hast there them" are the memories which in effect force us to act in ways which are inimical to the self - the soul - for they hold to the doctrine proclaimed by Balaam (Num. 22:37 to 24:25) of placing stumbling stones in the way of the children of Israel. These memories have as a basis the urges to worship idols which we follow as we in effect hold so fast to a fixed idea
(03:18:00) (ron) yes solya
(03:18:19) (Qrious) whatever happened to deny thyself and take up your cross.. lol
(03:18:29) (Solya) its not that ego is bad, its how you use it. Is that correct, Ron?
(03:18:50) (ron) that we come to believe it is from God Himself. We create such concepts in us, although we may merely be following a teacher (such as Balaam). Our belief determines the extent to which we might worship such. Such concepts (and thus forms of thought) which we create as rules of conduct (sometimes considered ideals) become as idols which we hallow. In this we
(03:19:06) (Solya) If you have an ideal, Q, that has ego supporting it, you will gleefully take up your cross.
(03:19:33) (Qrious) you do know what the cross is for don't ya..
(03:19:42) (ron) INWARDLY act out the historical doctrine of Balaam - just as we are caught in time in the Garden of Eden when we disclaim responsibility for our actions and in effect say' 'the Devil made me do it." Our actions are stumbling blocks to us and our growth process toward understanding just what we OUGHT to do.
(03:19:53) (Solya) Q, the cross is to attain the resurrection.
(03:20:01) (ron) INWARDLY act out the historical doctrine of Balaam - just as we are caught in time in the Garden of Eden when we disclaim responsibility for our actions and in effect say' 'the Devil made me do it." Our actions are stumbling blocks to us and our growth process toward understanding just what we OUGHT to do.
(03:20:39) (ron) It was also the doctrine of Balaam which led to the teaching of "eating things sacrificed to idols. " Beliefs as memories can lead us to like, to live with and (as a GROWTH experience) to digest the false idea that we can avoid responsibility because of our worship of idols, the images we
(03:20:39) (Qrious) uh.. Jesus is the resurrection.. he said that before he called Lazaruz out of the tomb.. not when he was on the cross.
(03:21:03) (Solya) yep
(03:21:17) (ron) build - ideas we hold fast to, which we claim to be most meritorious, that are of God; but in essence they are stumbling stones to progress. These are self-delusions which feed the ego.
(03:21:56) (ron) It is by this same self-deluding process that we commit fornication - which seems to be in the vein of a vicarious adulterous action - when we blithely allow other memories to stimulate or
(03:21:58) (Solya) Therefore, an ideal is the carrot before the donkey.
(03:22:07) (Solya) It helps to know what your carrot is.
(03:22:15) (ron) adulterate the creative energy which otherwise could remain pure. We conveniently blame others for our adulterous actions but claim them to be for worthy or ideal causes. Fornication is a devious way to accept adultery and feel justified and righteous about it.
(03:22:56) (ron) 15: So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate.
(03:23:08) (ron) This again is a reference to, as in verse 6 above, the Nicolaitanes who are said to have defended and practiced immorality. These kinds of acts are outlined in the discussion under verse 14. These acts are the kinds of things which the Son of man must hate. The verse seems self-explanatory when placed with the definition of the Nicolaitanes.
(03:23:09) (Solya) Thats one thing I got out of Scientology, It is shameful to blame another.
(03:23:34) (JohnB) whats the dayly illusion of today?
(03:23:37) (Solya) I aint giving away my cause!
(03:23:59) (ron) 16: Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
