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Post by WalksInSpirit on Sept 17, 2005 6:07:56 GMT -5
Thursday Afternoon Chat: 09-15-05, Part One "The Shroud Of Turin" (01:09:46) (Blu-Host) Why don't we all start with a prayer?
(01:09:53) (Blu-Host) any volunteers?
(01:10:16) (Blu-Host) speak now or I will do it!
(01:10:28) (Raleigh) i am shy as you know blu / so i will pass / ;0
(01:10:29) (chuck) go for it
(01:10:31) (Raleigh) :)
(01:10:34) (Blu-Host) oh the defening silence
(01:10:37) (Blu-Host) lol
(01:10:38) (Blu-Host) ok
(01:10:45) (Blu-Host) hang on and get centered
(01:10:50) (ky-mike) r father in heaven we thank u 4 bringing us together , amen
(01:11:01) (diane) amen
(01:11:10) (Raleigh) amen
(01:11:26) (patricia) amen
(01:11:30) (chuck) amen
(01:11:35) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Nunwe
(01:11:47) (ky-mike) any 1 else , please add on
(01:12:07) (Raleigh) that vprayer was just fine mike/:)
(01:12:11) (panther) amen
(01:12:36) (ron) amen
(01:12:50) (Raleigh) ec has suggested for for prayer as short as your will lord / :)
(01:13:58) (Blu-Host) Our Gracious Heavenly Father/Mother/Creator, we come before Your Holy presence ever mindful of your Grace and Love. We thank you for the fellowship of these lovely souls present in chat today. We ask for Your Presence that we might know the Oneness, help us to feel the connection between us all. We pray for those who suffer, that yor grace would give them strength and hope, that they might be lifted up into Your Holy Awareness. Protect our sister VJH. Amen
(01:14:29) (patricia) amen
(01:14:35) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Nunwe
(01:14:40) (chuck) amen...
(01:14:49) (diane) Amen
(01:14:53) (Raleigh) amen
(01:15:16) (ky-mike) AMEN
(01:15:30) (ron) amen
(01:15:35) (panther) e-me-nv (amen)
(01:16:17) (ky-mike) thanks blu ... well said
(01:16:31) (panther) yes well said prayer
(01:18:32) (Blu-Host) Our little afternoon chat is growing isn't it?
(01:18:39) (Blu-Host) This is good
(01:18:45) (Raleigh) :)
(01:19:31) (chuck) its nice to be in a chat room...that you dont have them nasty pop ups etc...
(01:44:11) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Sunday night, we saw a program on PBS about the Shroud of Turin. They presented some interesting information on it. We thought we'd share that with yall today, and discuss the Shroud. :-)
(01:44:28) (Blu-Host) OK folks topic time
(01:45:35) (ky-mike) i hav a photo of the shroud , nex to my puter
(01:45:41) (Host-WalksInSpirit) One thing this program presented is the Jewish practice of covering the face of a deceased person with a piece of cloth, called a "severium."
(01:46:04) (patricia) i have seen documentaries on The Shroud, it is interesting.
(01:46:09) (Raleigh) ok walksa
(01:46:12) (Roz) I heard Dr geroge Llamsa in a seminar discusss the shroud at theAre
(01:46:19) (Raleigh) itsa true blu
(01:46:23) (Roz) Geroge*
(01:47:04) (Host-WalksInSpirit) They especially did this with those who had been crucified, because of the Jewish belief that the soul resides in the blood. The cloth was used to soak up every bit of the blood possible.
(01:47:05) (ky-mike) yes , an pat , i feel its christ
(01:47:45) (patricia) i like to think that it is the real deal too mike. :o)
(01:47:52) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Gives a whole new meaning for Jesus shedding His blood for us, doesn't it?
(01:48:28) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Or a deeper meaning, I should say.
(01:48:37) (ky-mike) i think an feel that it is . they dont hav to prove it to me
(01:48:44) (chuck) did Cayce ever say anthing on that line....
(01:48:50) (ron) it ids real as far as i'm concerned
(01:48:55) (Raleigh) and the coins too walks
(01:48:59) (ron) is
(01:49:03) (Raleigh) over the eyes
(01:49:07) (Roz) Dr Llamsa who is an expert said it was not
(01:49:22) (Raleigh) or is that roman ?
(01:49:23) (ky-mike) an nails in the wrists
(01:49:45) (ron) experts and experts
(01:50:27) (merri) what else did the program say, WIS?
(01:50:30) (Raleigh) blood is special yes / as leviticus i recall says
(01:50:35) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Now, they found a severium in a small church. I forgot where, now. But, it was stored in a special case. And it was different from any severium they had ever seen before. It was saturated with blood.
(01:50:36) (ky-mike) an they had a fire , so carbon dating , wwill not work
(01:51:36) (Host-WalksInSpirit) They did DNA and blood type tests on this severium and compared it to the Shroud of Turin. It had been used on the same individual!
(01:51:48) (Raleigh) ive not heard of this / i have seen a ville though in a cathoilic church with his blood they say
(01:52:04) (Raleigh) interesting walks
(01:52:23) (Host-WalksInSpirit) The blood type was AB Negative, which was only found in 3% of the population.
(01:53:09) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Another interesting thing about the Shroud is it's construction.
(01:53:39) (Raleigh) it has pollen from isreal that is old
(01:53:53) (Raleigh) sorry walks / continue
(01:54:58) (ky-mike) an the pollen an seeds , r from that part of the world
(01:55:04) (Raleigh) yes
(01:55:15) (Host-WalksInSpirit) While restoring it, a specialist on Antique Textiles stated that the weave of the Shroud, and it's materials, had only been seen in one place and time before - Masada in the first century A.D. And she pinpointed it's construction to be within 1 - 70 A.D.
(01:55:16) (Raleigh) ancient pollen they found
(01:56:54) (Raleigh) massada was that place on the hill i recall /
(01:56:57) (Raleigh) fort
(01:57:10) (Host-WalksInSpirit) To account for the water stains, one of the scientists/anthropologists working on the Shroud Project had made a copy of the Shroud.
(01:57:59) (ky-mike) an a ultra bright light... transferred it on to the clouth
(01:58:34) (Host-WalksInSpirit) He folded it in half longways, then folded it accordian style, until it was a square. Then, he folded that in half. this was the ceremonial way of folding special cloths in that day.
(01:59:03) (ky-mike) yes , i saw that ral
(01:59:30) (Host-WalksInSpirit) He then put it in a clay jar, like the ones that the Dead Sea Scrolls were found in, and he replicated the conditions inside the cave where they were found.
(01:59:48) (Anonymous) who did?
(02:00:32) (Blu-Host) one of the scientists/anthropologists working on the Shroud Project
(02:00:33) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Moisture condensed inside the jar and collected in the bottom of the jar. When they removed the Shroud, it had the exact same water stains as the original Shroud of Turin.
(02:01:38) (Host-WalksInSpirit) So, he theorized that this is how those water marks were made on the Shroud. And that they were not caused by people trying to put out the fire, as once thought.
(02:02:38) (Raleigh) wb mike / walks said that they folded the schroud as the essenes dead sea jar placed / then water collected as if it had been done by them /
(02:02:54) (Host-WalksInSpirit) I have an article I'd like to share now about the Shroud. :-)
(02:03:32) (ky-mike) ok wis
(02:03:53) (Host-WalksInSpirit) The history of the Shroud of Turin presents an interesting contrast. Over the past several centuries, every movement, study, and display of the cloth has been the subject of intense scrutiny and meticulous documentation.
(02:04:06) (Host-WalksInSpirit) But the early history of the famed Christian relic is -- and perhaps always will be -- veiled in shadowy uncertainty.
(02:04:17) (Host-WalksInSpirit) This is from the Pbs website, btw.
(02:05:01) (Host-WalksInSpirit) The Certain History
(02:05:01) (Host-WalksInSpirit) The first definite historical appearance of the Shroud comes in a document written in 1389, which describes a public exhibition of the Shroud in 1355 in Lirey, France, by French knight Geoffrey de Charny. That same year, the Shroud is first called a forgery --
(02:05:24) (Host-WalksInSpirit) a cunning painting -- by Bishop Pierre D'Arcis of Troyes in a letter to the Pope. The cloth becomes the property of the House of Savoy, Italy's royal family, in 1453, in whose legal possession it will remain until 1986 when it is bequeathed to Pope John Paul II and his successors upon the death of Umberto II of Savoy.
(02:05:40) (ky-mike) an the creator ... would hav it no other way... faith !
(02:05:54) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Beginning in 1464, the cloth is housed in a special chapel in Chambery, in the French Alps. It was at the Chambery chapel that a fire on December 4, 1532, damaged the Shroud, which some believe affected the 1988 radiocarbon dating of the material. In 1578 the relic is moved to Turin, Italy, and first became known as the Shroud of Turin.
(02:06:07) (Blu-Host) LOL ;-) @ Mike
(02:06:33) (ky-mike) ty
(02:06:37) (Host-WalksInSpirit) The move, says historian and Shroud expert Ian Wilson, "was partly because a Cardinal from Milan [Charles Borromeo] was going to visit the Shroud and was planning to take the journey on foot from Milan to Chambery, so they brought the Shroud to Turin to save him part of the journey." Apart from being moved into hiding during World War II, the Shroud has remained in Turin ever since.
(02:07:06) (Host-WalksInSpirit) The Uncertain History
(02:07:06) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Prior to 1389, the history of the Shroud is more nebulous. "You find cloths called 'the shroud' or 'a shroud,' being kept in different places," Wilson says. "There is a shroud referred to in Jerusalem, one in Constantinople in 1204, but there didn't seem to be a clear pattern of anything that could be built up into a history." Historical records dating back to at least the 6th century, however, refer to a cloth (not specifically a burial cloth) with an imprint of Jesus.
(02:07:44) (Host-WalksInSpirit) cloth) with an imprint of Jesus.
(02:08:10) (Host-WalksInSpirit) "These references seem to center on one particular cloth which had been taken to Edessa [now in Eastern Turkey] back in the 1st century AD," Wilson says. According to legend, "it was instrumental in converting the king of that city, Abgar, to Christianity, shortly after the crucifixion." That cloth, too, dropped out of history, but apparently reappeared in the 6th century, when it was discovered hidden within the walls of the city gates.
(02:08:42) (Host-WalksInSpirit) "It was immediately hailed as being a miraculously imprinted likeness of Jesus and it became known as the Cloth of Edessa," Wilson says. "It was not called a shroud, but it became very celebrated. Artists made their likenesses of Jesus from it."
(02:09:16) (Host-WalksInSpirit) In 944, the Edessa Cloth was removed from the city by the armies of Emperor Romanus I of Constantinople. "He had a collection of relics of Jesus, things like the nails from the cross," Wilson says. "He wanted this cloth to join them," Wilson says. The Edessa Cloth remained in Constantinople until 1204, when Crusaders sacked the city.
(02:10:02) (Host-WalksInSpirit) "Although a crusader describes seeing a cloth with a figure of Jesus on it, he reports that after the city was captured, neither the Greeks nor the French crusaders knew what happened to it." There is no record of the Edessa Cloth after that point -- or, indeed, of any cloth imprinted with the image of Christ, until the cloth that would become known as the Shroud of Turin turns up in the possession of Geoffrey de Charny in the 1350s.
(02:10:20) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Wilson believes that the Edessa Cloth and the Shroud of Turin are one in the same.
(02:10:54) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Clues And Evidence
(02:11:18) (Host-WalksInSpirit) In 1988, an international team of scientific experts performed radiocarbon dating on snippets of the Shroud of Turin. The results showed that the famous cloth did not date back to the time of Christ's crucifixion in the 1st century A.D. In fact, the cloth seemed to have been manufactured sometime between 1260 and 1390 A.D. The team concluded the Shroud was nothing more than a medieval hoax.
(02:11:47) (Host-WalksInSpirit) In the years since the stunning announcement, Shroud experts and other investigators have called into question the accuracy of the dating. Some have even argued that damage to the border of the Shroud in December 1532 during a fire in the chapel of the Dukes of Savoy in Chambery, France, might in some way have changed the chemical composition of the cloth and skewed the testing results.
(02:12:16) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Stephen J. Mattingly, a Professor of Microbiology and Immunology at the University of Texas Health Sciences Center in San Antonio, also doubts the 1988 radiocarbon results -- but he blames not fire but microbes.
(02:12:28) (Raleigh) radiocarbon dating is not reliabl
(02:12:53) (ky-mike) yes , carbon dateing is null an void
(02:13:26) (Host-WalksInSpirit)
(02:13:26) (Host-WalksInSpirit)
(02:13:26) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Professor Stephen J. Mattingly at work in his laboratory, demonstrating that bacteria could have influenced the accuracy of the carbon-14 dating of the Shroud
(02:13:26) (Host-WalksInSpirit)
(02:13:26) (Host-WalksInSpirit)
(02:13:26) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Despite the lingering controversy, the basic science behind radiocarbon dating is disarmingly straightforward. The element carbon exists naturally on Earth in two stable forms, or isotopes, known as carbon-12 and carbon-13; in carbon-13, the nucleus of the atom contains one extra sub-atomic particle called a neutron.
(02:14:19) (Host-WalksInSpirit) A third isotope of carbon with two extra neutrons, known as carbon-14, is produced in the atmosphere when atoms of nitrogen are blasted by high-energy cosmic rays streaming in from space. The atom is unstable -- radioactive -- and eventually decays back into nitrogen-14. |
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Post by WalksInSpirit on Sept 17, 2005 6:10:35 GMT -5
Thursday Afternoon Chat: 09-15-05, Part Two (02:14:48) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Because some of the radioactive atom always exists at a low level in the atmosphere and on Earth, however, it gets incorporated at a predictable rate into the cells and tissues of all living things, from bacteria to plants to people, when, for example, the organisms suck up C-14 containing carbon dioxide molecules as part of their natural metabolic processes.
(02:15:20) (Host-WalksInSpirit) After things die, they no longer take in C-14, and so as the isotope decays back to nitrogen-14, its relative abundance steadily decreases over time. Measuring the amount of C-14 in something originally derived from organic material, then -- a wooden artifact, say, or the fibers of a linen cloth, which are made from flax plants -- tells the amount of time that has passed since the organism it came from was last alive.
(02:16:47) (Host-WalksInSpirit) What that means, however, is that any contamination with an object that was more recently alive will raise the relative abundance of C-14 atoms, producing an apparently younger age.
(02:17:22) (Host-WalksInSpirit) In the case of the Shroud of Turin, says Mattingly, the younger contaminants were bacteria. "You might imagine that over hundreds of years or several thousand, the Shroud has come in contact with many thousands of species of bacteria and fungi and some were able to grow for short or long periods of time," he explains. "Some of these organisms would be more recent and be incorporating more recent radiocarbon material.
(02:17:53) (Host-WalksInSpirit) The microbes are not digesting the linen, they are eating one another so to speak. As long as they can grow and incorporate carbon dioxide, which many microbes can do, they are actually making the Shroud appear more recent as time continues."
(02:19:05) (Host-WalksInSpirit)
(02:19:06) (Host-WalksInSpirit)
(02:19:06) (Host-WalksInSpirit) This strip was removed from the Shroud in 1988 when scientists used carbon-14 dating to test the age of the cloth
(02:19:06) (Host-WalksInSpirit)
(02:19:06) (Host-WalksInSpirit)
(02:19:06) (Host-WalksInSpirit) In fact, Mattingly and his colleague Leoncio Garza-Valdes have found several different species of bacteria colonizing pieces of the Shroud, including some organisms that had never been seen before.
(02:19:58) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Giovani Riggi, the scientific caretaker of the Shroud at the time, kept the strip and later provided samples to Mattingly and Garza-Valdes. "The Catholic Church did not sanction the removal and giving of the material to us and would not certify that the pieces were authentic. Nevertheless, we know that they are authentic," Mattingly says.]
(02:20:31) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Intriguingly, one of the microbe species seems to be producing an unusual material that coats the linen threads "with a brittle plastic-like material that made the linen difficult to cut, much like trying to cut through dry pasta," Mattingly says. "It appears that this polymer may have actually helped preserve the Shroud linen through time."
(02:20:54) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Similar coatings on other artifacts -- the linen wrappings on mummies, for example -- could also be affecting their radiocarbon ages.
(02:21:19) (Raleigh) i juswt thought that w
(02:21:48) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Mattingly also suspects that bacteria are responsible for the Shroud's ethereal image. His idea is that as the crucified man was dying, bacteria such as the common skin microbe Staphylococcus epidermi would have colonized and multiplied in his bloody wounds, creating a thin layer called a biofilm.
(02:22:23) (Host-WalksInSpirit) A biofilm can soak up water like a sponge. After the man died and his body was washed, the biofilm would have absorbed water and become extremely sticky. When the burial shroud was later placed over the body, it would have adhered fast, allowing the transfer of the microbes to the fibers of the cloth.
(02:22:48) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Over time, the degradation of the microbes would have produced a faint yellow imprint of the face and body that slowly darkened like a photographic image. "I have observed the drying of bacteria on surfaces before and noticed that they leave a straw yellow color similar to that observed with the Turin Shroud," he says.
(02:23:17) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Key to the color change are unsaturated fatty acids normally found within the membranes of all types of cells, including bacteria. The addition of oxygen atoms to the fatty acids molecules -- or oxidation -- changes their chemical make-up, giving rise to the yellow color. Similarly, says Mattingly, "the yellowing seen in 'ring around the collar' is due to fatty acids from the body and bacteria that have rubbed off onto the collar."
(02:23:52) (Host-WalksInSpirit) In a series of ongoing experiments to prove his theory, Mattingly has taken samples of bacteria from his own skin and grown them in culture to produce a biofilm. After killing the bugs to prevent infection, he slathers the film back on his skin and drapes it with a linen cloth.
(02:24:23) (Host-WalksInSpirit) The cloth readily adheres, but, more importantly, a photographic-like image forms on the cloth as the bacteria oxidize. In images he has created of his own hand, Mattingly's wedding ring is clearly visible. The image, he says, is "not perfect, but darn close! The hand is great to use, because it is mainly skin and bone.
(02:24:52) (Host-WalksInSpirit) When you get to the face, there is fatty tissue around the cheeks that cause the image to be flatter, because the linen attaches so strongly to the skin. Take away the fatty tissue and hydrated tissue, as you have in an individual who has lost virtually all of his body fluid, and you would have skin on bone, thereby getting a much better image."
(02:25:11) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Mattingly is now conducting tests to isolate the chemical compounds responsible for the yellow color. He is also trying to improve the quality of the facial images.
(02:25:16) (Host-WalksInSpirit) End
(02:25:25) (Raleigh) hmmm
(02:25:30) (patricia) cool WIS, thanks
(02:25:34) (Raleigh) ty
(02:25:55) (Raleigh) i lean tward that it is real
(02:26:09) (Raleigh) ec mentions it i recall
(02:26:44) (Raleigh) what do you feel w and blu
(02:27:05) (Raleigh) ?
(02:27:06) (ky-mike) first time i saw the shroud, was in a nat geo , center fold... it grabed me , back over 30 yrs ago .
(02:27:25) (Blu-Host) We looked at the picture of the shroud on line and if you look at the negative of it there is an intersting thing that jumps out at you
(02:27:50) (Raleigh) what blu
(02:27:59) (Blu-Host) The blood from the crown of throns of course ran down His face
(02:28:04) (Host-WalksInSpirit) I personally believe that is the image of Jesus on the Shroud.
(02:28:08) (Blu-Host) and the blood left an image on it
(02:28:11) (Raleigh) there are many interesting things i saw
(02:28:16) (Raleigh) yes
(02:28:31) (Blu-Host) where the third eye is located the number 3 is clearly visable
(02:28:32) (Raleigh) and the nail holes are in the wrist say
(02:28:42) (Raleigh) this was a practice then too
(02:28:56) (Raleigh) if through the hand it would tear
(02:29:09) (Raleigh) the shroud shows wrust
(02:29:13) (Raleigh) wrist
(02:29:23) (ky-mike) i do to wis , right down to my very soul !
(02:29:27) (Host-WalksInSpirit) On that PBS program, they also had a hand specialist on there. He looked at where the blood stains were on the Shroud, and he said there is one small particular place in the hand that WILL support from 300-400 pounds.
(02:29:33) (ky-mike) yes ral , in the wrist , , not palms , wrist holds the body up on the cross
(02:29:51) (vjh) You all don't have to get so graphic.
(02:29:57) (Raleigh) goodness blu / 3
(02:30:01) (Raleigh) wow
(02:30:12) (Blu-Host) yep Ral, and we all know the signifcance of that
(02:30:29) (Raleigh) i lean toward its real
(02:30:39) (patricia) me too Ral
(02:30:42) (ky-mike) it does ral
(02:30:52) (Raleigh) 75 percent probalev
(02:30:57) (Host-WalksInSpirit) He said also in that same small part of the hand, there lies the bulk of the nerves in the body. And if one were to have a nail pass through there, it would feel like MANY lightning bolts shooting up through the arms.
(02:31:05) (Blu-Host) if you want to see it look at www.shroud.com/shrdfacn.jpg
(02:31:07) (Raleigh) yes ike it does
(02:31:11) (Raleigh) mike
(02:31:29) (ky-mike) an the scerge marks on the bac , from cat o nine tails
(02:31:43) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Here's where the article I just posted is:
(02:31:46) (Raleigh) the image i feel was -
(02:31:48) (Host-WalksInSpirit) www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/case_shroudchrist/
(02:31:57) (Blu-Host) I put the pic of his face on my pc as my background
(02:32:02) (Raleigh) the pwr of the spirit energy
(02:32:10) (Raleigh) transfigure say kinda
(02:32:43) (Raleigh) i like the late pbs stuff weekends round here walks
(02:32:46) (Raleigh) 2
(02:33:03) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Any comments or questions?
(02:33:15) (ky-mike) great blu , nearer my lord to thee ^i^
(02:33:19) (Raleigh) lots more is being found everyday huh
(02:33:27) (patricia) thanks Blu and WIS, i gotta run. love all of ya!
(02:33:36) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Blessings Patricia!
(02:33:37) (merri) any proof this is an image of Jesus? Many were crucified
(02:33:43) (Raleigh) hey neat mike / :)
(02:34:13) (ky-mike) the key to the shroud ... 4 me is , the light it took to make the transfer
(02:34:18) (Raleigh) yes walks
(02:34:37) (Raleigh) whats for dessert nowv / :)
(02:34:57) (Raleigh) very good wa;ls
(02:34:59) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Merri, the only things are the dates of the cloth manufacture, and, if you'll look at the image, there are bloodstains around His head. Jesus was the only person crucified that wore the Crown of Thorns.
(02:34:59) (Raleigh) walks
(02:35:00) (Raleigh) ty
(02:35:02) (Blu-Host) I do not know that there can ever be any real proof Merri
(02:35:29) (Raleigh) i better remove my foot from my lil towns library lest she weary of me
(02:35:44) (merri) probably not, Blu
(02:35:47) (Raleigh) and librarians round here carry pistols lol
(02:35:53) (Raleigh) ty w/e blu
(02:36:03) (Host-WalksInSpirit) An interesting thing... in the image of the Shroud, there seems to be a light radiating from the crown chakra.
(02:36:21) (Host-WalksInSpirit) It's visible in the negative image of it.
(02:36:37) (ky-mike) no , an the creator , would hav it that way , no proof .... just faith
(02:37:28) (ky-mike) yes , it shows up good in negative
(02:38:01) (Blu-Host) However
(02:38:29) (ky-mike) some dont beleve in the shroud , an an dont beleve in the spirit world
(02:39:04) (Blu-Host) about 17 to 18 years ago the A.R.E. had an artist do a drawing of what Jeusus would look like from the description of the readings. I had it at one time but lost it. It would be interesting to compare these images
(02:39:28) (Blu-Host) I am going to email the ARE and ask them to reprint it
(02:39:38) (ky-mike) but if .. u knowu have a soul ... thats all the proof u need !
(02:40:01) (Blu-Host) Forensic scientists have made an image of the face from the shroud
(02:40:06) (merri) isn't there something in the Bible about believing in images?
(02:40:16) (Blu-Host) yep
(02:40:22) (Blu-Host) idols
(02:40:28) (ky-mike) an false profits
(02:41:11) (ky-mike) an jesus said , beware , minny will come in my name
(02:41:25) (Blu-Host) Also I keep remebering that after Jesus was resurrected his followers did not recognize Him as he had physically altered
(02:41:39) (ky-mike) yes blu . well said
(02:42:09) (Blu-Host) How ever, I do not think having a photographic image of Jesus qualifies as having a craven image
(02:42:14) (ky-mike) but mary mag , knewhim by his words
(02:42:17) (Blu-Host) or could hurt anyones faith
(02:42:45) (Blu-Host) wouldn't be any different than having a picture of any one of us
(02:42:53) (Blu-Host) As we are all "The Christ"
(02:43:07) (ky-mike) a part of christ
(02:43:31) (ky-mike) if we choose his path
(02:44:40) (Blu-Host) We all share the same divine identity, for there is ultimately only one Mind. That each of us has the capacity to follow the pattern and manifest Christ is the heart of Jesus’ message.
(02:44:59) (merri) for some reason there is something about the Shroud that bothers me
(02:45:01) (ky-mike) yes
(02:45:16) (merri) too much focus on an image maybe
(02:45:18) (ky-mike) wat isit merri
(02:45:44) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Here's a cool Edgar Cayce Reading we found today:
(02:45:54) (ky-mike) to me , it only serves as a reminder..... that is all
(02:45:57) (Blu-Host) anything that would bring attention to the mission and life of Jeusus is not to much focus
(02:46:04) (Host-WalksInSpirit) READING 364-9
(02:46:04) (Host-WalksInSpirit) 6. (Q) What name was borne by Jesus in His reincarnations in France, England, America?
(02:46:16) (Host-WalksInSpirit) (A) Rather these have been as the Spirit of the Christ, or the Master walked among men, than incarnated in these different countries; for whether among the priest, as it were, in France - or among the lowly monk in England, or the warrior bold in America, the SPIRIT that "God is ONE!
(02:46:27) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Prefer thy neighbor, thy brother, before thyself!" These, as we find, took possession of - or rather labored with, until their own PERSONALITIES were laid aside in individuals. Do thou likewise, would thou have Him walk with thee. "Not my will, O Lord, but thine, be done in me - this day, now!"
(02:46:54) (vjh) I didn't know he had an American incarnation until I saw that reading you just quoted.
(02:47:12) (Blu-Host) He did not reincarnate VJH
(02:47:47) (Blu-Host) Rather these have been as the Spirit of the Christ, or the Master walked among men, than incarnated in these different countries; for whether among the priest, as it were, in France - or among the lowly monk in England, or the warrior bold in America, the SPIRIT that "God is ONE!
(02:48:09) (Blu-Host) The Spirit of the Christ, not a reincarnation
(02:49:25) (ky-mike) an remem ber... last chapter , says hes coming back
(02:54:36) (Blu-Host) Open chat!
(02:59:44) (Blu-Host) wow we had a crowd in here today !
(03:00:10) (ky-mike) yes , it was great , great topic... the shroud
(03:00:26) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Thanks, Mike! |
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