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Post by WalksInSpirit on Sept 26, 2006 5:17:42 GMT -5
A Temple Of Knowledge: 09-22-06 ron says: A TEMPLE OF KNOWLEDGE by Margaret Sherman ARE Press 1970
ron says: WHAT IS FREE WILL?
ron says: "...The devil tempted Eve to eat of the fruit, and she ate..." Genesis 3: 1-13
ron says: There is no easy explanation of "Free Will". We know it is the precious gift our Heavenly Father gave us. Even when, like Eve, we disobey Him He does not interfere with our use of it.
ron says: God having given us free will, does not take it away. Nor does He interfere with our use of it. We alone are responsible for ourselves - for our souls. We can choose to obey God's commandments, or choose to disobey. 900-20
ron says: Suppose your mother or father should say to you, because they love you and know what is best for you, "You have absolutely no choice - you must love and trust us and be obedient to our every thought and word, regardless of what seems right and best to you. Regardless of your understanding, whatever our will is, it must be yours."
ron says: The chances are you would resent them and be unhappy, since you are not being permitted to learn and decide anything for yourself. They, too, would be unhappy, because they would realize that they had given you no choice. There would be neither pleasure nor satisfaction in that.
ron says: How much better that they simply love you, because you are their child; that they do what they can for you, knowing it is good and best for you, hoping that you will feel and know their love for you.
diane says: and no growth
ron says: Then, how much better that you, of your own free will, realizing their love for you and desire for your happiness, choose to love and obey them to the best of your ability and understanding. How happy they will be to receive your love and your demonstration of thankfulness for them, knowing you give it freely and because you choose to.
ron says: That's the way God is. He loves you, for you are one of His children. He wants only what is best for you, and for you to be happy. He also wants you to love Him - because you want to. But He wants you to decide with your own free will.
ron says: Everything we do or try to do is the result of how we use or misuse our will. All through our lives the decisions we make, and the methods we use for meeting experiences, is the factor that gives us our individuality and shows us what progress we make toward companionship with our Heavenly Father. 5749-14
true_eagle says: a free soul...
ron says: Sometimes we think we use our will correctly, only to find out later and to our sorrow that we misused it. But if in all sincerity we meant no harm, God, who knows all things, knows our intent also.
ron says: If we learn from our mistakes and seek to correct them, God gives us the opportunity to do so. For just as we were not born full grown and all wise, neither did our souls claim full possession of the will all at one time. Our soul, like the rest of us, is in a continual state of growth and learning.
ron says: To will something is to act. For instance, you might say, "I decided to go play after school," or, "I decided to stay home." Your decision to do something resulted from your mind directing your will. Your will, therefore, is dependent upon your mind.
ron says: Mind is that part of you that thinks, reasons, has opinions. It is the builder. The builder for the person you are or want 'to be and will become. 826-11 / 5753-1
ron says: As your mind acquires more knowledge of God and your soul begins to recognize more and more its place and its destiny in God's universe, you begin to realize that it was the spirits' misuse of will that first brought trouble into the world and separated us from God. This is why we should all seek to use our will rightly, to freely choose to make it one with God's. 5753-1.………END
ron says: easy beginners stuff right? :)
diane says: Like a child's book
diane says: very elementary. lol
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Post by WalksInSpirit on Sept 26, 2006 5:35:15 GMT -5
Tarot: The Fool's Journey: 09-22-06 ron says: TAROT: THE FOOL'S JOURNEY
ron says: The Fool is probably the most important card in the entire Tarot deck. Though he may be depicted as a court jester in some packs, in the deck we use in this book A. E. Waite had the card redrawn to match its inner meaning. Waite said of the Fool, in part:
ron says: “He is a prince of the other world on his travels through this one - all amidst the morning glory, in the keen air. The sun, which shines behind him, knows whence he came, whither he is going, and how he will return by another path after many days. He is the spirit in each of experience.”
ron says: Court de Gebelin places it at the head of the whole series as the zero or negative which is presupposed by numeration, and as this is a simpler so also is it a better arrangement.
ron says: 0 = before the beginning, or personal creation, manifestation (before the number 1, which means manifestation, the beginning
ron says: It has been abandoned because in later times the cards have been attributed to the letters of the Hebrew alphabet, and there has been apparently some difficulty about allocating the zero symbol satisfactorily in a sequence of letters all of which signify numbers... The truth is that the real arrangement of the cards has never transpired.
ron says: Waite, in his - book The Pictorial Key to the Tarot, places the Fool between Key 20 and Key 21, We have placed the Fool as No. 0, before Key 1, for it seems to us that the Fool represents the soul of everyone, which, after it is clothed in a body, appears on earth and goes through the life experiences depicted in the 21 cards of the Major Arcana, sometimes thought of as archetypes of the subconscious.
ron says: Let each reader use his imagination and find here his own map of the soul's quest, for these are symbols that are deep within each one of us.
ron says: now to the journey
ron says: In The Magician/Key 1 and The High Priestess/Key 2, the Fool learns the uses of the conscious and subconscious aspects of the mind in order to create the bounty of Nature, as pictured in The Empress/Key 3.
ron says: The Emperor/Key 4 indicates the role of the ruler, and the Hierophant/Key 5 shows the place of the head of a religious body.
ron says: In The Lovers/Key 6, he learns that in order to have a harmonious life, the superconscious must be consulted through the subconscious.
ron says: Using his mentality and will, The Fool can ride The Chariot/Key 7 of success as long as he can be master of his passions.
ron says: . The woman in Key 8, Strength, shows him how, through the use of spiritual strength, he can control not only the animal world around him but also the lower forces in himself.
ron says: The Hermit/Key 9, with his lantern of Truth, offers to guide him on the spiritual path.
ron says: When the Fool reaches The Wheel of Fortune/Key 10, his apprenticeship is over. From now on he is on his own, to rise or fall, while. the sphinx of his soul looks on.
ron says: In Justice/Key 11, he learns to have a balanced personality and to eliminate the outworn and useless.
ron says: He is The Hanged Man/Key 12 who has surrendered himself to Spirit and sacrificed his small desires for the greater one.
ron says: Death/Key 13 shows him that death can also be a form of renewal and is not to be feared.
ron says: The Archangel Michael (Temperance)/Key 14 shows him how to create by pouring the Waters of Life from the unseen into the seen.
ron says: He has been shown all the secrets of life and how to use them, yet is tempted by The Devil/Key 15 to use his newfound power to create a life of selfish gain and material pleasure.
jenny says: jesus .....water into wine
ron says: yes
ron says: The Fool is knocked from his material Tower/Key 16 and awakened by a flash of spiritual insight, The Star/Key 17 to the knowledge that he is on earth to learn and put to use the eternal knowledge he has been given.
ron says: Chastened, he now learns to meditate, and discovers that no destruction is final. But again, in The Moon/Key 18 card, the Fool is tempted, this time to use his psychic powers for personal glory, and he finds the upward path not only crooked but full of pitfalls.
ron says: Finally, in The Sun/ Key 19, he has learned his lessons well and they have become automatic.
ron says: He rides forth in control of the horse of the physical naked, for he no longer has anything to hide. The red feather in his hair shows he now has authority over the animal kingdom, and the sunflowers turning toward him are an indication that all nature turns to the developed soul for future growth.
jenny says: rider on the white horse
ron says: Next he joins the angel Gabriel, (The Last Judgment)/Key 20 in calling all men to awaken to the glories of the spiritual life - and then his journey is over.
ron says: The Fool is Spirit again, as in the beginning, but now he has passed through his initiations on the material plane, where he has played many parts and learned to control both involution and evolution as he dances the Dance of Life in the very center of The Universe (The World)/Key 21.
ron says: END
diane says: Wonder how much actual intuition goes into giving a tarot reading
diane says: I would think, much
jenny says: ron, a lot of this also seems to correspond to astrology , wha do u think
ron says: yes it does jenny
diane says: In what way?
diane says: joker does learning time on other planets?
ron says: i think, diane, that all art forms indicates the use of intuition since interpretations are required...how well used or developed may be another story...i can't anwer that part
jenny says: i notice thru a few last keys as describing myself and what i have been thru / capricorn
ron says: i would say so diane
diane says: A fellow cap, ron!
ron says: i have to send you guys the picture in order to discuss that card in detail
ron says: lol
ron says: Capricorn, at times, tend to choose to do things the hard way...i suppose, a kind of making up
ron says: why the person, or the soul, is here in the first place
ron says: how the world would look at a person that is very spiritually oriented for instance
ron says: or from the point of view of the Fool/soul, regarding its foolishness
ron says: having to go thru this earthly experience again.............and again
jenny says: especially capricorn
ron says: yes jenny...working out a difficult karma
ron says: well did you like that brief journey of the tarot's The Fool?
jenny says: very interesting!
diane says: Interesting ron, i'm amazed to say. lol
ron says: i have another called, Tarot and Numerology...but that is for another time
jenny says: amazing ron , i was next going to , mention that numerology seemed a part of all this as well.
ron says: we did what the author called, The Fool's Journey briefly thru the 21 major keys
ron says: or the soul's journey
merri says: is the Fool also the Joker?
ron says: i would think so with some packs, merri...but since i am only interested in one pack, i'm not sure if i'm correct...but that seems so to me
ron says: the Fool, like the Joker is someone that others tend to laugh at
true_eagle says: a k a catheys clown
ron says: especially those that uninitiated...regarding those who are very spiritually inclined
ron says: or different in some manner
ron says: usually in reference to Aquarians lol
merri says: see alot of those around ron!
diane says: Very funny, ron. lol
true_eagle says: or the court jester
ron says: quite so merri
ron says: yes, the court jester is an example mike
true_eagle says: yepp
merri says: some people do tarot with a regular playing deck of cards
diane says: that's true
diane says: would love to know how, just for fun
ron says: i heard of that merri...but not familiar with that subject at all
true_eagle says: yea . i had a reading merri . said 05 .. was gonna be a great year.. it was 1 of the worst
merri says: you can probably find it on the web
ron says: what diane...tarot interpretations, readings?...yes that is possible here if we worked at it
merri says: sorry to hear that mike
true_eagle says: yea interpatations
true_eagle says: ty merri.. i got thru it ... thank u lord ^i^
merri says: guess it depends on who is doing the reading
ron says: i didn't know that you liked tarot mike...that is good to know
diane says: How to do it with regular playing cards ron
ron says: oh, i see...
diane says: whoever read them for mike was a tad off base, sounds like
true_eagle says: som people nabble in things .. they know not !
true_eagle says: yes . di
merri says: or think they do mike! lol
ron says: that is what it sounds like to me...not very good at it..or lacking intuition
true_eagle says: yes .. the mind of some .. alas the ego ..... a k a .... the id !
true_eagle says: or as rev... jackson put it ... i am sombody !
diane says: lol
ron says: i knew a person that did tarot...all the meanings memorized...but absolutely no intuition...100's of meanings giving and nothing of any use
true_eagle says: yea . im laughing
merri says: yes ron, the cards, etc are really just an aid
ron says: and then, i knew another that did not have all the meanings memorized and used a book for help...and she was excellent!!!...very intuitive...picked the right meanings for what was being asked about
diane says: that's what i meant earlier ron...talking of intuition
true_eagle says: but therer som truley gifted people
ron says: yes diane
ron says: ok diane
diane says: it's like dream interp, in a way
ron says: right diane...that is how i am looking at it
true_eagle says: good psychic, s say .. beware !
diane says: I'd hesitate to actually do a tarot reading for someone, unless maybe i knew them well
true_eagle says: yes , anthers the intuative
ron says: i can do it with astrology and hit about 99 % of the time...i have developed much confidence with it
true_eagle says: cayce beleved in the stars
ron says: well, maybe not exactly 99% :)
merri says: good for you ron
diane says: Practice makes perfect...
true_eagle says: u look at the pryimids.. the a line wit orions belt
ron says: i have somethings regarding the pyramid and orions belt...a few of them
diane says: TY for chat, ron and all.
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Post by WalksInSpirit on Sept 26, 2006 5:43:21 GMT -5
In Search Of Historic Jesus: 09-22-06 ron says: IN SEARCH OF HISTORIC JESUS by Lee Roddy/Charles E. Serrier jr. 1979
ron says: ECHOES FROM AN EMPTY TOMB [and other documents]
ron says: The Gospels record that Mary Magdalene came to the garden at dawn, or while it was still dark, on the day after the Sabbath. John mentions only Mary Magdalene as being at the tomb, but the synoptics name other women as well. Since John's narrative gives us a possible clue to the historical Jesus, we'll follow his version of what happened next.
ron says: Mary ran to Simon Peter and John and blurted out her discovery: "They have taken away the Lord out of the tomb! We don't know where they have laid him!" (John 20:2)
ron says: The two disciples ran together toward the garden. But John outran Peter and reached the sepulcher first. John stooped down and peered into the empty tomb. He saw the linen wrappings lying there, but did not enter. (John 20:4-5)
ron says: Then Peter arrived at the tomb and entered.
ron says: It was forbidden for Jews to handle burial cloths or other items considered "unclean." But Peter saw the linen wrappings and, lying by itself, the face-cloth that had been on his head. (John 20:5-7)
ron says: Then John entered the sepulcher. And when he too had seen the burial cloths, he believed. (John 20:6-8)
ron says: But Peter and John returned to their homes, leaving Mary Magdalene standing alone outside the tomb, weeping. Through her tears, she stooped again into the sepulcher. (John 20:10-11)
ron says: Two angels were sitting there. One sat at the head and the other at the feet were Jesus' body had been.
ron says: One angel asked, "Woman, why are you weeping?" She replied, "Because they have taken away my Lord, and I don't know where they have laid him." (John 20: 13)
ron says: As she said this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there. But she didn't recognize him; she thought that he was the gardener.
true_eagle says: go on ron .. i love it
ron says: ok
ron says: Jesus asked, "WOMAN, WHY ARE YOU WEEPING? WHOM DO YOU SEEK?
ron says: Mary answered, still unaware to whom she was talking, "Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have laid him, and I will take him away." (John 20:15)
ron says: Jesus said, "MARY"
ron says: Mary Magdalene turned and recognized Jesus. She cried out "Rabboni!" ("master" in Aramaic). (John 20: 16)
ron says: He cautioned her, "DON'T TOUCH ME, FOR I HAVEN'T YET ASCENDED TO MY FATHER! GO TO MY BRETHREN AND SAY TO THEM, 'I ASCEND TO MY FATHER AND YOUR FATHER, AND MY GOD AND YOUR GOD.'" (John 20:17)
ron says: Mary ran again to the disciples and told them that she had seen the Lord. She repeated Jesus' conversation with her, and what his message to them had been. (John 20: 18)
ron says: According to Mark, the mourning and weeping disciples refused to believe that Jesus was alive and that Mary Magdalene had seen him. (Mark 16: 10)
true_eagle says: the non-belevers
ron says: In the meantime, Jerusalem was abuzz with other excited conversations about the empty tomb and Jesus of Nazareth. Some of the guards who had fled from the garden before dawn reported to the chief priests what had happened. They then assembled with the elders and talked over the situation.
ron says: Mary Magdalene turned and recognized Jesus. She cried out "Rabboni!" ("master" in Aramaic). (John 20: 16)
ron says: He cautioned her, "DON'T TOUCH ME, FOR I HAVEN'T YET ASCENDED TO MY FATHER! GO TO MY BRETHREN AND SAY TO THEM, 'I ASCEND TO MY FATHER AND YOUR FATHER, AND MY GOD AND YOUR GOD.'" (John 20:17)
ron says: Mary ran again to the disciples and told them that she had seen the Lord. She repeated Jesus' conversation with her, and what his message to them had been. (John 20: 18)
ron says: According to Mark, the mourning and weeping disciples refused to believe that Jesus was alive and that Mary Magdalene had seen him. (Mark 16: 10)
ron says: In the meantime, Jerusalem was abuzz with other excited conversations about the empty tomb and Jesus of Nazareth. Some of the guards who had fled from the garden before dawn reported to the chief priests what had happened. They then assembled with the elders and talked over the situation.
ron says: It was decided to give a large bribe to the soldiers.
ron says: "You are to say," the elders told the Roman guards, "'his disciples came by night and stole him while we were asleep.' (Matt. 28: 13 )
ron says: The soldiers took the money. It was better than being punished for deserting their posts.
ron says: The religious leaders cautioned the troop, "If any of this comes to the ears of Governor Pontius Pilate, we will win him over and keep you out of trouble." (Matt. 28: 14)
ron says: The soldiers obeyed and spread the story that the chief priests had given them. This version of what had happened at the garden tomb was believed in from then on by those who deny Christ's resurrection.
ron says: Jesus' disciples spent that first day in mourning and in discussing the strange events - all except Judas Iscariot.
ron says: On Friday morning, after Jesus had been accused before Pilate, Judas was remorseful. He went to the chief priests and elders to return the thirty pieces of silver he had been paid for betraying his leader. "I have sinned by betraying innocent blood," Judas explained.
ron says: The religious leaders shrugged. "What is that to us?" (Matt. 27:3-4)
ron says: Judas threw the silver into the sanctuary and went out and hanged himself. (Matt. 27:5) Another version of the story has it that, having purchased a field with the silver, Judas fell "and all his bowels gushed out." (Acts 1:18)
ron says: Except for some post-resurrection New Testament accounts which we will cover in a later chapter, that is basically the story of Jesus of Nazareth as recorded in the Gospels. A clue to help us in our search for the historic Jesus is also included in the material we've covered so far in this chapter. We will also examine that later.
true_eagle says: k
ron says: But let us first consider some new evidence in ) regard to the accuracy of the New Testament.
ron says: We have already established the fact that the historical context of the Bible is well authenticated by archaeological and other scientific evidence. But is there any specific archaeological, historical or other evidence of Jesus' existence?
ron says: Thallus, a secular chronicler who wrote in Greek about 52 AD, was believed to be a Samaritan. Only fragments of his work remain. But in these there is a reference to the mysterious eclipse (if this is what it was) that occurred in April about 30 AD.
true_eagle says: yes ... the dead sea scrools
ron says: The commentaries of Josephus, the Jewish historian, on John the Baptist are authentic Of his two references to Jesus, one is challenged while the second is undisputed.
ron says: In his ANTIQUITIES OF THE JEWS, Josephus has written:
ron says: "Now there was about this time a certain Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure.
ron says: "He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles.
ron says: "He was the Christ, and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men among us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians so named "from him are not extinct to this day." [p. 379]
ron says: The authenticity of this passage has been challenged as a later interpolation by someone other than Josephus. Why, it has been asked, would Josephus, a Jew, have given only a brief coverage to the life of one whom he supposedly called "the Christ"?
ron says: Josephus wrote extensively about persons who played a comparatively minor role in history; men who were shepherds, for example, and set crowns on their own heads and declared themselves kings. Common sense suggests that those who claim this passage is spurious have a certain amount of logic on their side.
ron says: But what about the second reference to Jesus in the ANTIQUITIES? This entry was made after Festus died (his name occurs later in the New Testament) and Caesar sent Albinus to Judea as procurator.
ron says: This second passage in which Josephus refers to Jesus indicates that Annas "was a bold man in his temper, and very insolent," a Sadducee and one of the five sons of Annas, the high priest before whom Jesus had first been haled.
ron says: While Albinus was traveling toward Jerusalem to succeed Festus, Annas the younger seized the high priesthood and "assembled the Sanhedrin of the judges and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others, and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned." [p. 423]
ron says: Origen, an early church father who wrote about 230 AD, commented on Josephus' references to Jesus in ANTIQUITIES OF THE JEWS. He argues that the Jewish historian reflects what was then a commonly-held belief as to the cause of the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem under Titus in 70 AD. Origen wrote:
ron says: "These miseries befell the Jews by way of revenge for James the Just, who was the brother of Jesus that was called Christ; because they had slain him who was a most righteous person." ["Dissertation I: The Testimonies of Josephus Concerning Jesus Christ, John the Baptist, and James the Just Vindicated," p. 639]
ron says: The apostle, Paul, who carried the Christian message to the Gentile world while the apostles who carried it to the Jewish world remained in Jerusalem, mentions James as well: "Then three years later I went up to Jerusalem to become acquainted with Cephas [Peter], and stayed with him about fifteen days. But I did not see any other of the apostles except James, the Lord's brother." (Gal. 1:18-19)
ron says: The Gospels repeatedly place James first in the list of Jesus' siblings, as would naturally be done if James was the oldest. It is obvious that Jesus' brothers and sisters did not believe that he was the Messiah early in his ministry. Perhaps even his mother doubted Jesus once. (Mark 3:21, 31)
ron says: Eusebius, a later church historian, indicates that by tradition James was bishop of Jerusalem. Certainly the Scriptures show that James was a leader of the church in Jerusalem until the destruction of the city and temple. James is said to have died about 62 AD.
ron says: Hegesippus extends Joesephus' account of James' death. The later report undoubtedly depended upon tradition or material not now available. James, like most of the early believers who were soon called Christians, was a Jew. But the Jewish authorities caused James to stand upon a temple wing where the angry people threw him down and stoned him because of his testimony about Jesus.
ron says: Other non-biblical chroniclers have left records which do not necessarily prove Jesus of Nazareth actually lived, but are empirical proofs that many people of that immediate time were positive he had. They were so sure Jesus was what he had claimed to be that these people died for their faith.
ron says: Julius Africanus (circa 221 AD) cites Thallus, who wrote around 52 AD, as the first non-Jew to mention Christ: "Thallus, in the third book of his histories, explains away this darkness as an eclipse of the sun unreasonably, as it seems to me."
ron says: Thallus' original works are mostly lost, but the portions that remain suggest that he challenged that a Solar Eclipse could have occurred at the time of a full moon. However, while this is a logical explanation for the eclipse at Jesus' death, the New Testament does not clearly say whether it was an eclipse or something else.
ron says: Josephus was commander of the Jewish forces in Galilee during the war against the Romans in 66 AD, so he was on the scene when the final conflict began. His references to Jesus have already been noted.
ron says: But it is interesting that the Arabic text of the same challenged quote about Jesus being the Christ is softened to read: "He was perhaps the Messiah concerning whom the prophets had recounted wonders." [Quoted in J. McDowell, EVIDENCE DEMANDS A VERDICT, p. 85]
ron says: Cornelius Tacitus (circa 112 AD) wrote of Nero's reign and of how Christians were blamed for the terrible fire in Rome in 64 AD. To shift the blame from himself, the mad emperor falsely charged with the guilt, and punished with the most exquisite tortures, the persons commonly called Christians, who were hated for their enormities.
ron says: Christus, the founder of the name, was put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea in the reign of Tiberius; but the pernicious superstitions repressed for a time, broke out again, not only through Judea, where the mischief originated, but through the city of Rome itself. [McDowell p. 84]
ron says: Suetonius (circa 120 AD), a Roman historian during the reign of Emperor Hadrian, has two references to Christ (whom he calls "Chrestus," an alternative, spelling of "Christus," still used today):
ron says: "As the Jews were making constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he [Emperor Claudius] expelled them from Rome. [McDowell p.85]
ron says: "Punishment by Nero was inflicted on the Christians, a class of men given to a new and mischievous superstition." [McDowell p. 85]
ron says: Pliny the Younger wrote a lengthy letter about 112 AD when he was governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor. He sought the opinion of Emperor Trajan in dealing with the Christians. Until he wrote this letter, Pliny had been persecuting and killing the Christians. The number of martyrs' was so great that Pliny wondered if he should only kill certain Christians, rather than all who professed a belief in Christ.
ron says: The Christians, Pliny noted "were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verse a hymn to Christ as a god, and bound themselves, by a solemn oath, not to do any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft, adultery, never to falsify their word, not to deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it." [McDowell p.86]
ron says: Justin Martyr, writing about 150 AD to Emperor Antoninus Pius, referred to a report by Pontius Pilate which presumably was in the imperial archives. Mentioning the nailing of Jesus' hands and feet and the gambling for his clothes, as recorded in the Scriptures, Justin Martyr added: "...that these things were so, you may learn from the 'Acts' which were recorded under Pontius Pilate." [McDowell p. 87]
ron says: Tertullian (circa 197 AD) mentions a reputed exchange between Pontius Pilate and Tiberius Caesar:
ron says: "Tiberius accordingly, in those days the Christian name having made its entry into the world, having himself received intelligence of the truth of Christ's divinity, brought the matter before the Senate, with his own decision in favor of Christ. The Senate, because it had not given the approval itself, rejected this proposal. Caesar held to his opinion, threatening wrath against all the accuser of the Christians." [McDowell p.86]
ron says: There is no point in going, beyond the second century for passages that prove that near-contemporaries accepted without question that there had been a Jesus of Nazareth and that his followers were spreading rapidly, in spite of being persecuted for their beliefs.
ron says: Indeed, the Hebrew Talmud provides conclusive proof that Jesus of Nazareth really existed as an historical person: "On the eve of Passover they hanged Yeshu [of Nazareth] and the herald went before him for forty days saying [Yeshu of Nazareth] is going forth to be stoned in that he hath practiced sorcery and beguiled and led astray Israel.
ron says: . Let everyone knowing aught in his defense come and plead for him. But they found naught in his defense and hanged him on the eve of Passover." [McDowell p. 88]
ron says: now that is something...found in the Jewish Talmud
ron says: Nothing can be taken for granted in researching as sensitive a subject as the Jesus of history. But while some of our investigations disclosed myths where facts had been assumed, a great deal of confirming data outside the New Testament was also turned up.
true_eagle says: yea
ron says: For example, the many visitors to the State of Israel today can see the town in Galilee where Jesus is supposed to have grown up. The Sea of Galilee, where Jesus is said to have walked on the water, the Mount of Olives, and the Garden of Gethsemane are popular sites.
ron says: The Gabbatha, or pavement where Jesus suffered under Pilate, has recently been unearthed.
ron says: But where is Calvary, or Golgotha? There is a place called Gordon's Calvary, which few serious scholars consider as likely. The true site is subject to speculation, but many believe it is under the Ecce Homo Convent in Jerusalem.
ron says: Everyone visiting the famous city today wants to see the Wailing Wall. This recalls a prophecy made by Jesus to his disciples that the time was coming when not one stone of the temple would be left standing.
ron says: That came true in 79 AD when the Roman general, Titus, unintentionally allowed his troops to destroy the magnificent thirty-five-acre temple which King Herod had started building. The polished marble stones, the gold and precious stones, had all been destroyed by the rampaging legionnaires.
ron says: The Western Wall, which still remains, was not a part of the temple; but was actually a part of the wall from Herod's palace. Every last stone of the temple was cast down, exactly as Jesus had predicted.
ron says: To many people, what happens in Jerusalem in the coming years will be of vital importance because of many prophecies some people believe have not yet been fulfilled. These have to do with a world battle of nations near Jerusalem.
ron says: If these predictions are true, what happens in Israel will some day affect everyone reading this book, and millions of others around the world who may never have heard of it, or Jesus of Nazareth.
ron says: If some things Jesus said have come true, why shouldn't the others eventually also prove true?
ron says: It is a sobering thought, especially when it is recalled that the Jews lost their temple and city in 70 AD and were finally ejected from Jerusalem in 134 AD, not to return for nearly 2,000 years. They returned as a nation in 1948, something unknown in the history of mankind, and retook all of Jerusalem in 1967.
ron says: But the clock of Jerusalem and Israel continues to beat time-according to biblical scholars.
true_eagle says: an as the bible says
ron says: And so our search for the historical Jesus takes on new meaning, and brings us to the one possible piece of physical evidence which still exists today. Its story is so dramatic that some of the world's best scientists are now checking its authenticity.
ron says: right
true_eagle says: yea ^i^
ron says: We refer to the burial shroud of Christ.
ron says: END
true_eagle says: dats a good 1
true_eagle says: ty ron
ron says: that historical stuff can be a bit confusing
true_eagle says: wen 2 or more .. gather in my name
ron says: but i find it all interesting
true_eagle says: yesc .. i scratch my head
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