Post by WalksInSpirit on Jun 5, 2006 15:10:13 GMT -5
Astrology Chat: 06-05-06
(02:26:56) (ron) ok...i'll start things now...also, i was thinking of doing some real astrology by continueing with the 3rd house meanings...since i did the 2nd house two weeks ago
(02:27:46) (ron) CUSPS AND THE ZODIAC
(02:28:21) (ron) The readings place considerable emphasis on those who were born on the cusps, that is, the time when one zodiacal sign is ending and another beginning. Astrology textbooks simply say that such individuals partake of both signs in their characteristics:
(02:31:29) (ron) In all the readings studied by this writer, in which the individual is said to be born in or on the cusp, no mention is made as to which two signs are waning and increasing. For this reason we discuss the zodiac later.
(02:31:58) (Sophia) is the cusp the day before
(02:32:42) (ron) can be the day before or the day after...perhaps, more than one day
(02:32:52) (Sophia) ty
(02:32:54) (ron) We are left with a mystery. Why were not the signs called by name? Another mystery is that many persons born on the cusp were not designated as such. This may be because many other influences were at work and were similar to cusp influences.
(02:33:27) (ron) Clearly, from the readings, a person born at such a time is and can be in a very difficult position.
(02:33:35) (Lynn) Ron, July 22 would be cusp cancer leo, wouldn´t it?
(02:34:20) (ron) i might be...but a chart needs to drawn up for knowing exactly where the cusps are methematically
(02:34:37) (Lynn) and how do you tell with the chart?
(02:35:10) (Lynn) is that the cusp of 1st house?
(02:35:25) (ron) look to the signs-degrees at the rim of the chart
(02:35:28) (Lynn) sorry, no
(02:35:39) (Lynn) ok
(02:35:48) (Lynn) which part of rim
(02:35:56) (Lynn) cancer rises and extends into first two houses
(02:36:30) (Lynn) sun is also in cancer
(02:36:46) (ron) Sun sign cusps are primarily referrenced with most people looking into astrology...but cusp changes can be referred to any part of the horoscope
(02:37:03) (Lynn) oh, I get it. thank you , ron
(02:37:14) (ron) outside....lynn, i thought you knew astrology
(02:37:15) (Lynn) that really extends my knowledge
(02:37:26) (Lynn) You know more than me.
(02:37:43) (ron) In entering the present experience, we find the entity is indeed one who may be said to be in the influence of...the cusps. While such influences are different, according to the information...given by many, we find that those who are near to the rising of one influence and the submerging - as it were - of another, are oft in those experiences where...they are in a strait, as it were, as to what should be the activity. 801-1
(02:38:24) (ron) lynn...you are unable to read an astrological symbolic wheel yet...should take time and study some
(02:38:43) (ron) learn all the symbols for the planets and signs
(02:38:47) (Lynn) ok lol
(02:38:52) (ron) and where to look for them
(02:38:55) (Lynn) rub it in, ron lol
(02:39:54) (ron) In entering, astrologically, we find the entity coming under the influence of Uranus, Venus, Jupiter, and the cusps. In this [latter] relation...these in the physical life may be altered by the environmental conditions, and are changed by the will or directing influences in the present experience...
(02:40:26) (ron) Under Uranus - one exceptional in abilities, whether that of the mental or of physical endurance, or application of either.
(02:40:44) (ron) Under Venus - one loving in temperament, one that may be controlled by the influences as relate to sentiment, rather than...duty...
(02:41:02) (ron) In the influences in Jupiter - these will bring strength and ennobling powers in the influence of the entity.
(02:41:18) (ron) Through the cusps, or that changeable influence in the variations as are experienced, felt or known as conscious innate feeling - these will always bring that of rebellion to others that would dominate. 220-1
(02:42:32) (ron) without the proper reference, i find it difficult to understand exactly the cusp situation regarding the chart spoken of here...so if i'm confused...
(02:43:04) (ron) In the above reading, for a child five years old, we have no accurate birth hours; but the solar chart for September 22, 1924, puts the Sun at 29 degrees Virgo; Uranus at 19 Pisces, Venus at 13 Leo, and Jupiter at 13 Sagittarius. No sign of the zodiac is mentioned
(02:43:17) (ron) as influencing the entity. he individual next cited was born March 21, 1933; no birth hour is given. Solar chart puts the Sun at 29 Pisces. Uranus, Mercury, and Jupiter are given as influencing planets. There is no mention of the Piscean or Sun-sign influence.
(02:43:38) (ron) here it is...
(02:43:51) (ron) 29 degrees...end of Virgo
(02:44:08) (ron) the Sun...
(02:45:15) (ron) the Sun being mentioned each time...so far, the Rising sign hasen't been mentioned
(02:45:41) (ron) This entity comes upon the cusps; thus we find at times conflicting emotions with the entity. During the formative period of mental and physical developments, we find that the entity may be easily led. 2411-1
(02:46:05) (ron) but, yet here
(02:47:22) (ron) The Piscean influence is mentioned in the reading for [282], born March 18, 1906, but not the Arian influence as might be supposed. The Sun is placed at 26 degrees, 58 Pisces.
(02:48:14) (ron) some astrologers have used 3 degrees as the maximum orb for change of cusps
(02:48:38) (ron) that is, in either direction such as 3 degrees of a sign
(02:49:03) (ron) same with the Full Moon influence...which i believe is common knowledge
(02:49:54) (ron) In entering astrologically, we find the entity coming near the cusps and under the influence of Pisces - in its latter portion. Hence we will find, while the entity has altered much of that termed as astrological, these are as innate...conditions to be warned [about] concerning...the physical body. 282-2
(02:50:26) (ron) OTHER "CUSPER-ERS" ARE:
(02:50:46) (ron) ...with the abilities untrained [one] would bring those opposing forces as found in Saturn and the cusps. For in the cusps is seen, with those influences in the Uranian, that these bring those passions or those unruly conditions that may not be subdued by force, but conquered, guided and led in love. [Born March 17, 1913; Sun at 26 Pisces.] 960-4
(02:51:22) (ron) From the astrological aspects we find the entity almost exactly upon the cusps. Hence we will find two influences, and the entity oft needing, requiring, a consideration by those making the choice of environs for the entity during the early portion of its
(02:51:32) (ron) developments...For there has been into this keeping, in these beginnings, entrusted in this experience an entity that may mean as much to the world as the entity meant to, means to, America. [Born June 21, 1936; Sun at 29 Gemini.] 1208-1
(02:52:23) (ron) In the astrological aspects we find the entity coming very close to the cusps, or changes; yet the more definitely decided influences the astrological aspects may have...will be in the inclinations for the entity to take himself so seriously, as he develops...
(02:53:15) (ron) As the entity astrologically comes under the influences from the astrological sojourns - rather than the astrological positions, we will find Venus, Mercury, Mars and Uranus as a portion of the entity's experiences...[Born February 18, 1938; Sun at 28 Aquarius.] 1647-1
(02:53:49) (ron) Not considered "cusp-ers," apparently, are: [305-1], whose Sun is at 2 Cancer; [398-1], whose Sun is at 6 Cancer; [559-7] whose Sun is at 28 Taurus; [759-1], whose Sun is at 26 Aquarius; [773-1], whose Sun is at 3 Taurus; [1426-11], whose Sun is at 27 Gemini; [1635-3], whose Sun is at 29 Gemini; and many others. The readings are open to much more research in this area.
(02:53:56) (Lynn) I find I have 5 planets that are cusp
(02:54:07) (Lynn) within 3 degrees
(02:54:29) (ron) THE ZODIAC
(02:54:55) (ron) It has already been hinted that the signs of the zodiac did not play an important role in most life readings. This is at variance with astrology textbooks which enumerate characteristics for each sign, and when an individual is born in Gemini, for instance,
(02:55:24) (ron) proceed to describe Geminian’s and ascribe characteristics to that individual according to the Sun sign. Even though the ascending degree is in a different sign, the inward characteristics, say the textbooks, conform to Gemini.
(02:57:09) (ron) but if a planet is rising, especially close to the ascendant, it might be the planet that one took flight from before entering the earth plane...i have discovered that the word "zenith" as given in the readings pertains more to the ascendant and not to hte midheaven
(02:58:02) (ron) One key to this discrepancy, aside from the influences carried over from previous incarnations, may be found in reading 8-1 (born August 11,1890; Sun at 18 Leo). The information is given that the physical birth took place late in the evening of August 11, and "In the early morn" (presumably, August 12) were "the soul and spirit forces completed."
(02:59:01) (ron) some astrologers have interpreted the 29th degree of a sign, any planet, symbolically represents a finishing up process of the soul
(02:59:21) (ron) for that particular lesson
(02:59:53) (ron) perhaps making reference to that signs qualities etc
(03:00:42) (ron) interesting "soul and spirit forces"
(03:01:07) (ron) We mention this in passing to illustrate the fact that, according to the readings, physical birth and soul birth were not always simultaneous. The reading then proceeds, not to describe the Sun in the Leo type of individual, but to say that the soul and spirit took their flight from Mercury, with the influence of Venus, Jupiter, and Uranus, with negative influences from Mars and Neptune. The next paragraph states:
(03:01:46) (ron) soul and spirit...two different entities...that sounds interesting
(03:02:18) (ron) As to those [influences] of the constellations or of the zodiacal signs in the life of this entity, these are merely the wavering influences in the life, and not those directing forces ever present in the inner soul of this entity. These we find in opposition to much that is at present taught or given in [the] earth plane... 8-1
(03:02:46) (ron) An explanation of why the planetary influences and previous lives influences are all important at birth is given for [1796), born January 7, 1925. Following the descriptions of heredity and environment in their truest senses, the reading proceeds to put the zodiac in its proper relationship:
(03:03:10) (ron) diane, you might remember a previous conversation i had with you on the subject of spirit and soul
(03:03:29) (ron) Thus we find this entity - as each entity - is in the present the result of that the entity has applied of creative influences or forces in every phase of its experience. Thus it makes for that called by some karma, by others racial hereditary forces.
(03:04:10) (ron) called by some karma, by others racial hereditary forces
(03:04:20) (ron) And thus environment and hereditary forces (as are accepted) are in their reality the activities of the mind of the entity in its choices through the experiences in the material, in the mental, in the spiritual planes...
(03:05:25) (ron) There are then those accredited signs or omens or indications of characteristics in the innate and manifested activities of the entity. But these are irrespective of what the entity is to do, or will do, respecting same.
(03:05:35) (Lynn) Ron, what encouragement. My mars is 29 degrees Libra. I´m almost over my mad. lol
(03:06:04) (ron) There are then those accredited signs or omens or indications of characteristics in the innate and manifested activities of the entity. But these are irrespective of what the entity is to do, or will do, respecting same.
(03:06:27) (ron) In the interpreting of the records here, then, we find the entity from the astrological aspects is influenced not because of the position of the sun, the moon or of the earth in its relationships to planets or zodiacal signs or other influences. Yet all of these are recognized as part of the entity's environment. 1796-1
(03:06:56) (ron) This entity's Sun is at 16 Capricorn. He is influenced by five planets, beginning with Mercury. He is influenced both by astrological and material sojourns, he was told. Although some people are influenced more by astrological or by material sojourns, a larger percentage are influenced by a combination of the two.
(03:07:36) (ron) To restate the above, as put in another reading:
(03:07:50) (ron) Astrologically, then, we find the influences are not merely because of the position of a star or planet, sun or moon, or any of the astrological aspects or effects or influences; but rather through the entity's activities these have an innate influence because of sojourns and activities of the innate or soul self through such environs...
(03:08:19) (ron) The material sojourns find expression more in the emotional portion of the entity's being...But from the astrological we find the influences innate, and some are to be cultivated, that may grow, that may expand, and become more a portion of the influence; just as others are to be curbed and a lesson gained and applied rather than allowing self to drift... 1700-1
(03:08:55) (Qrious) so.. it isn't necessarily pertanant to the person, but only as hints to the possible influences?.. cause the souls former sojourns gets involved in it?
(03:10:23) (ron) there is that developing process that is taking place...thus indicated as "Mental Urges", or planetary sojournes that take place between incarnations...that setting of ideals
(03:10:58) (ron) For an individual who was born March 18, with the Sun at 28 degrees of Pisces, but not designated as a "cusp-er," we find a statement which certainly does not clarify the importance of zodiacal signs.
(03:11:23) (ron) Hence the entity was born into the earth under what signs? Pisces, ye say. Yet astrologically from the records, these are some two signs off in thy reckoning. 5755-1
(03:12:14) (ron) but the readings indicate the strength of the Sun...being highly important..esecially in regads to timing which is necessary for the soul
(03:12:42) (Qrious) that would only be 2 months then... so maybe he was adopted.. lol
(03:12:46) (ron) This discrepancy may be due to the precession of the equinoxes, which is explained by Ellen McCaffery in Graphic Astrology: "The vernal equinox is the day in spring (about March 21) when day and night are equal in time. Astrologically, the equinox falls on the
(03:12:57) (ron) day when the Sun reaches the zero degree Aries. Our signs are thus calculated from what is termed by astrologers the Aries ingress, which...is now in the constellation Pisces, or one sign behind."
(03:13:41) (ron) it all depends what zodiacal system one wishes to use...both are aceptable
(03:14:00) (ron) 2 months in what way?
(03:14:08) (ron) astrologically that is?
(03:14:14) (ron) regarding chart interpretation
(03:14:42) (ron) from an astrologers point of view or a non astrologers point of view
(03:14:55) (Qrious) it said two signs off didn't it ron?
(03:15:18) (Qrious) so it would be for or against.. plus or minus.. ?
(03:15:41) (ron) while ARE uses the Tropical zodiac, or season centered, geocentric astrology and not the constellational system
(03:15:46) (Lynn) This seems tongue in cheek to me. So, I´m not really Scorpio. Unless I want to think I am. I get two months reprieve. If I want it. lol
(03:16:15) (ron) it depends on what system being used and for what purpose
(03:16:24) (Qrious) oh.. o.k.
(03:16:39) (Qrious) lol Lynn.
(03:16:42) (ron) what does one mean 2 months off?
(03:16:46) (WalksInSpirit) My sis Debbie is a Scorpio, Lynn. :-)
(03:16:53) (ron) figure that out and we can have a conversation
(03:17:02) (Lynn) lucky gal.
(03:17:05) (ron) otherwise i am going nowwhere
(03:17:24) (Qrious) Off the mark I would think ron.
(03:17:32) (Lynn) I have it figured out according to my consideration.
(03:18:29) (ron) off the mark in what way astrologically...one can look at the sky constellations and see immediately where the sun is...in the sign one is looking at now in real time...
(03:18:48) (ron) so further understanding is required...especially regarding the subject of astrology
(03:19:00) (Qrious) well.. was a gregorian calender used? .. lol
(03:19:09) (ron) About 2000 B.C. the signs and the constellations coincided, and March 21, or the vernal equinox, lay in the sign of the Ram or Aries. Now the signs and constellations are almost one sign apart. One almanac says that the chart of the zodiac showing the human body surrounded by the symbols of the zodiac was first published about the year 1300.
(03:19:48) (ron) However, as years passed, the zodiac moved slowly backward along the path of the Sun, and the distance covered up to the present time is close to thirty degrees. This means that the sign of Aries now contains the constellation Pisces; the sign Taurus now contains the constellation Aries, etc. Astronomical observers, the almanac says, use the constellations. This can readily be interpreted from the signs by going backward one symbol.
(03:21:17) (ron) Astronomers generally agree that it takes 26,000 years, approximately, for the Sun and its family of planets to revolve around the central Sun, Arcturus. This backward revolution is called the precession of the equinoxes. Thus, in 2,100 years, the backward movement puts the vernal equinox one sign behind.
(03:21:53) (ron) Astronomers do not agree as to what degree of the sign of Pisces is now occupied by the Sun at the vernal equinox: 9 degrees is suggested by one, and 3 degrees by another, etc. At any rate, we are nearing the beginning degrees of the Piscean constellation and thus getting closer to the later degrees of the sign of Aquarius. It is conceded that Jesus of Nazareth lived and carried on His ministry in the early Piscean Age.
(03:21:58) (Qrious) well.. both it seems now ron.. if they are now 30 degrees further apart.. then the dates would change dramatically.
(03:22:20) (ron) what do you mean by "dates"?
(03:22:36) (ron) today is not june 3rd?
(03:22:40) (Qrious) time periods..
(03:23:31) (ron) It is easy to see, then, that the statement about two signs off (for the March 18 individual) is partially explained. According to hints and statements in the Cayce life readings, as this writer interprets them, the error of an additional sign off may be explained by erroneous adjustments of calendars The Persian calendar and the zodiacal signs are supposed to be
(03:23:42) (ron) the most accurate. In life reading 2011-3, the entity was very much interested in astrology and was told that this stemmed from an experience in Egypt.
(03:24:08) (Qrious) if the constellations are moving away.. then the earth spining on its axis would show a different contelation than we are accustomed to.
(03:24:18) (ron) true
(03:24:48) (Lynn) Do not destroy the dream.
(03:24:49) (ron) ...the entity was put in command of the preparations for the associations in the land of Saad and the Golden City, and the Mongoloid land. For to these three the entity was sent to act as an interpreter of the various astrological conditions that were to be drawn [up] by the various groups...The interests of the entity in those pertaining to astrology arise from
(03:25:22) (ron) that sojourn, also [things] pertaining to buildings, geometrical signs, symbols, pictures, things that illustrate...For the Egyptian and the Persian records are quite varied [at variance]. If the entity would study astrology, do not put the signs in the Egyptian calendar but in the Persian, for the Persian interpretations are more proficient than the
(03:25:55) (ron) Egyptian. This is not belittling the efforts of the entity nor of the' Egyptians in those periods, but the variations in time have been corrected by the Persians and not by the Egyptians. The Egyptian calculations are thirty degrees off [one sign]. 2011-3
(03:26:35) (ron) Although we have a possible explanation for the second of the "two signs off," it would take an expert in the subject of ancient calendars with all their discrepancies to explain what this means in terms of the Sun in the zodiac, in the present.
(03:27:08) (ron) There are other references in the readings to the Persian calendar. One of these is from 826-8, and we include part of the reading leading up to this because it discusses the matter of which chart should be used for an individual-the physical birth or the soul birth.
(03:27:10) (Qrious) that would be due to thier understanding.. in comparison to the Persians.. the persians were more adepted it seems.
(03:27:42) (ron) (Q) Should an astrological horoscope be based on the time of physical birth or the time of soul birth?
(03:27:59) (Lynn) Depends, when was the soul born?
(03:28:01) (ron) (A) On time of physical birth; for these are merely inclinations, and because of inclinations are not the influence of will. Will is that factor of the spiritual forces or the gift, as it were, to man...as he came into material form, with which choice is made, see?
(02:27:46) (ron) CUSPS AND THE ZODIAC
(02:28:21) (ron) The readings place considerable emphasis on those who were born on the cusps, that is, the time when one zodiacal sign is ending and another beginning. Astrology textbooks simply say that such individuals partake of both signs in their characteristics:
(02:31:29) (ron) In all the readings studied by this writer, in which the individual is said to be born in or on the cusp, no mention is made as to which two signs are waning and increasing. For this reason we discuss the zodiac later.
(02:31:58) (Sophia) is the cusp the day before
(02:32:42) (ron) can be the day before or the day after...perhaps, more than one day
(02:32:52) (Sophia) ty
(02:32:54) (ron) We are left with a mystery. Why were not the signs called by name? Another mystery is that many persons born on the cusp were not designated as such. This may be because many other influences were at work and were similar to cusp influences.
(02:33:27) (ron) Clearly, from the readings, a person born at such a time is and can be in a very difficult position.
(02:33:35) (Lynn) Ron, July 22 would be cusp cancer leo, wouldn´t it?
(02:34:20) (ron) i might be...but a chart needs to drawn up for knowing exactly where the cusps are methematically
(02:34:37) (Lynn) and how do you tell with the chart?
(02:35:10) (Lynn) is that the cusp of 1st house?
(02:35:25) (ron) look to the signs-degrees at the rim of the chart
(02:35:28) (Lynn) sorry, no
(02:35:39) (Lynn) ok
(02:35:48) (Lynn) which part of rim
(02:35:56) (Lynn) cancer rises and extends into first two houses
(02:36:30) (Lynn) sun is also in cancer
(02:36:46) (ron) Sun sign cusps are primarily referrenced with most people looking into astrology...but cusp changes can be referred to any part of the horoscope
(02:37:03) (Lynn) oh, I get it. thank you , ron
(02:37:14) (ron) outside....lynn, i thought you knew astrology
(02:37:15) (Lynn) that really extends my knowledge
(02:37:26) (Lynn) You know more than me.
(02:37:43) (ron) In entering the present experience, we find the entity is indeed one who may be said to be in the influence of...the cusps. While such influences are different, according to the information...given by many, we find that those who are near to the rising of one influence and the submerging - as it were - of another, are oft in those experiences where...they are in a strait, as it were, as to what should be the activity. 801-1
(02:38:24) (ron) lynn...you are unable to read an astrological symbolic wheel yet...should take time and study some
(02:38:43) (ron) learn all the symbols for the planets and signs
(02:38:47) (Lynn) ok lol
(02:38:52) (ron) and where to look for them
(02:38:55) (Lynn) rub it in, ron lol
(02:39:54) (ron) In entering, astrologically, we find the entity coming under the influence of Uranus, Venus, Jupiter, and the cusps. In this [latter] relation...these in the physical life may be altered by the environmental conditions, and are changed by the will or directing influences in the present experience...
(02:40:26) (ron) Under Uranus - one exceptional in abilities, whether that of the mental or of physical endurance, or application of either.
(02:40:44) (ron) Under Venus - one loving in temperament, one that may be controlled by the influences as relate to sentiment, rather than...duty...
(02:41:02) (ron) In the influences in Jupiter - these will bring strength and ennobling powers in the influence of the entity.
(02:41:18) (ron) Through the cusps, or that changeable influence in the variations as are experienced, felt or known as conscious innate feeling - these will always bring that of rebellion to others that would dominate. 220-1
(02:42:32) (ron) without the proper reference, i find it difficult to understand exactly the cusp situation regarding the chart spoken of here...so if i'm confused...
(02:43:04) (ron) In the above reading, for a child five years old, we have no accurate birth hours; but the solar chart for September 22, 1924, puts the Sun at 29 degrees Virgo; Uranus at 19 Pisces, Venus at 13 Leo, and Jupiter at 13 Sagittarius. No sign of the zodiac is mentioned
(02:43:17) (ron) as influencing the entity. he individual next cited was born March 21, 1933; no birth hour is given. Solar chart puts the Sun at 29 Pisces. Uranus, Mercury, and Jupiter are given as influencing planets. There is no mention of the Piscean or Sun-sign influence.
(02:43:38) (ron) here it is...
(02:43:51) (ron) 29 degrees...end of Virgo
(02:44:08) (ron) the Sun...
(02:45:15) (ron) the Sun being mentioned each time...so far, the Rising sign hasen't been mentioned
(02:45:41) (ron) This entity comes upon the cusps; thus we find at times conflicting emotions with the entity. During the formative period of mental and physical developments, we find that the entity may be easily led. 2411-1
(02:46:05) (ron) but, yet here
(02:47:22) (ron) The Piscean influence is mentioned in the reading for [282], born March 18, 1906, but not the Arian influence as might be supposed. The Sun is placed at 26 degrees, 58 Pisces.
(02:48:14) (ron) some astrologers have used 3 degrees as the maximum orb for change of cusps
(02:48:38) (ron) that is, in either direction such as 3 degrees of a sign
(02:49:03) (ron) same with the Full Moon influence...which i believe is common knowledge
(02:49:54) (ron) In entering astrologically, we find the entity coming near the cusps and under the influence of Pisces - in its latter portion. Hence we will find, while the entity has altered much of that termed as astrological, these are as innate...conditions to be warned [about] concerning...the physical body. 282-2
(02:50:26) (ron) OTHER "CUSPER-ERS" ARE:
(02:50:46) (ron) ...with the abilities untrained [one] would bring those opposing forces as found in Saturn and the cusps. For in the cusps is seen, with those influences in the Uranian, that these bring those passions or those unruly conditions that may not be subdued by force, but conquered, guided and led in love. [Born March 17, 1913; Sun at 26 Pisces.] 960-4
(02:51:22) (ron) From the astrological aspects we find the entity almost exactly upon the cusps. Hence we will find two influences, and the entity oft needing, requiring, a consideration by those making the choice of environs for the entity during the early portion of its
(02:51:32) (ron) developments...For there has been into this keeping, in these beginnings, entrusted in this experience an entity that may mean as much to the world as the entity meant to, means to, America. [Born June 21, 1936; Sun at 29 Gemini.] 1208-1
(02:52:23) (ron) In the astrological aspects we find the entity coming very close to the cusps, or changes; yet the more definitely decided influences the astrological aspects may have...will be in the inclinations for the entity to take himself so seriously, as he develops...
(02:53:15) (ron) As the entity astrologically comes under the influences from the astrological sojourns - rather than the astrological positions, we will find Venus, Mercury, Mars and Uranus as a portion of the entity's experiences...[Born February 18, 1938; Sun at 28 Aquarius.] 1647-1
(02:53:49) (ron) Not considered "cusp-ers," apparently, are: [305-1], whose Sun is at 2 Cancer; [398-1], whose Sun is at 6 Cancer; [559-7] whose Sun is at 28 Taurus; [759-1], whose Sun is at 26 Aquarius; [773-1], whose Sun is at 3 Taurus; [1426-11], whose Sun is at 27 Gemini; [1635-3], whose Sun is at 29 Gemini; and many others. The readings are open to much more research in this area.
(02:53:56) (Lynn) I find I have 5 planets that are cusp
(02:54:07) (Lynn) within 3 degrees
(02:54:29) (ron) THE ZODIAC
(02:54:55) (ron) It has already been hinted that the signs of the zodiac did not play an important role in most life readings. This is at variance with astrology textbooks which enumerate characteristics for each sign, and when an individual is born in Gemini, for instance,
(02:55:24) (ron) proceed to describe Geminian’s and ascribe characteristics to that individual according to the Sun sign. Even though the ascending degree is in a different sign, the inward characteristics, say the textbooks, conform to Gemini.
(02:57:09) (ron) but if a planet is rising, especially close to the ascendant, it might be the planet that one took flight from before entering the earth plane...i have discovered that the word "zenith" as given in the readings pertains more to the ascendant and not to hte midheaven
(02:58:02) (ron) One key to this discrepancy, aside from the influences carried over from previous incarnations, may be found in reading 8-1 (born August 11,1890; Sun at 18 Leo). The information is given that the physical birth took place late in the evening of August 11, and "In the early morn" (presumably, August 12) were "the soul and spirit forces completed."
(02:59:01) (ron) some astrologers have interpreted the 29th degree of a sign, any planet, symbolically represents a finishing up process of the soul
(02:59:21) (ron) for that particular lesson
(02:59:53) (ron) perhaps making reference to that signs qualities etc
(03:00:42) (ron) interesting "soul and spirit forces"
(03:01:07) (ron) We mention this in passing to illustrate the fact that, according to the readings, physical birth and soul birth were not always simultaneous. The reading then proceeds, not to describe the Sun in the Leo type of individual, but to say that the soul and spirit took their flight from Mercury, with the influence of Venus, Jupiter, and Uranus, with negative influences from Mars and Neptune. The next paragraph states:
(03:01:46) (ron) soul and spirit...two different entities...that sounds interesting
(03:02:18) (ron) As to those [influences] of the constellations or of the zodiacal signs in the life of this entity, these are merely the wavering influences in the life, and not those directing forces ever present in the inner soul of this entity. These we find in opposition to much that is at present taught or given in [the] earth plane... 8-1
(03:02:46) (ron) An explanation of why the planetary influences and previous lives influences are all important at birth is given for [1796), born January 7, 1925. Following the descriptions of heredity and environment in their truest senses, the reading proceeds to put the zodiac in its proper relationship:
(03:03:10) (ron) diane, you might remember a previous conversation i had with you on the subject of spirit and soul
(03:03:29) (ron) Thus we find this entity - as each entity - is in the present the result of that the entity has applied of creative influences or forces in every phase of its experience. Thus it makes for that called by some karma, by others racial hereditary forces.
(03:04:10) (ron) called by some karma, by others racial hereditary forces
(03:04:20) (ron) And thus environment and hereditary forces (as are accepted) are in their reality the activities of the mind of the entity in its choices through the experiences in the material, in the mental, in the spiritual planes...
(03:05:25) (ron) There are then those accredited signs or omens or indications of characteristics in the innate and manifested activities of the entity. But these are irrespective of what the entity is to do, or will do, respecting same.
(03:05:35) (Lynn) Ron, what encouragement. My mars is 29 degrees Libra. I´m almost over my mad. lol
(03:06:04) (ron) There are then those accredited signs or omens or indications of characteristics in the innate and manifested activities of the entity. But these are irrespective of what the entity is to do, or will do, respecting same.
(03:06:27) (ron) In the interpreting of the records here, then, we find the entity from the astrological aspects is influenced not because of the position of the sun, the moon or of the earth in its relationships to planets or zodiacal signs or other influences. Yet all of these are recognized as part of the entity's environment. 1796-1
(03:06:56) (ron) This entity's Sun is at 16 Capricorn. He is influenced by five planets, beginning with Mercury. He is influenced both by astrological and material sojourns, he was told. Although some people are influenced more by astrological or by material sojourns, a larger percentage are influenced by a combination of the two.
(03:07:36) (ron) To restate the above, as put in another reading:
(03:07:50) (ron) Astrologically, then, we find the influences are not merely because of the position of a star or planet, sun or moon, or any of the astrological aspects or effects or influences; but rather through the entity's activities these have an innate influence because of sojourns and activities of the innate or soul self through such environs...
(03:08:19) (ron) The material sojourns find expression more in the emotional portion of the entity's being...But from the astrological we find the influences innate, and some are to be cultivated, that may grow, that may expand, and become more a portion of the influence; just as others are to be curbed and a lesson gained and applied rather than allowing self to drift... 1700-1
(03:08:55) (Qrious) so.. it isn't necessarily pertanant to the person, but only as hints to the possible influences?.. cause the souls former sojourns gets involved in it?
(03:10:23) (ron) there is that developing process that is taking place...thus indicated as "Mental Urges", or planetary sojournes that take place between incarnations...that setting of ideals
(03:10:58) (ron) For an individual who was born March 18, with the Sun at 28 degrees of Pisces, but not designated as a "cusp-er," we find a statement which certainly does not clarify the importance of zodiacal signs.
(03:11:23) (ron) Hence the entity was born into the earth under what signs? Pisces, ye say. Yet astrologically from the records, these are some two signs off in thy reckoning. 5755-1
(03:12:14) (ron) but the readings indicate the strength of the Sun...being highly important..esecially in regads to timing which is necessary for the soul
(03:12:42) (Qrious) that would only be 2 months then... so maybe he was adopted.. lol
(03:12:46) (ron) This discrepancy may be due to the precession of the equinoxes, which is explained by Ellen McCaffery in Graphic Astrology: "The vernal equinox is the day in spring (about March 21) when day and night are equal in time. Astrologically, the equinox falls on the
(03:12:57) (ron) day when the Sun reaches the zero degree Aries. Our signs are thus calculated from what is termed by astrologers the Aries ingress, which...is now in the constellation Pisces, or one sign behind."
(03:13:41) (ron) it all depends what zodiacal system one wishes to use...both are aceptable
(03:14:00) (ron) 2 months in what way?
(03:14:08) (ron) astrologically that is?
(03:14:14) (ron) regarding chart interpretation
(03:14:42) (ron) from an astrologers point of view or a non astrologers point of view
(03:14:55) (Qrious) it said two signs off didn't it ron?
(03:15:18) (Qrious) so it would be for or against.. plus or minus.. ?
(03:15:41) (ron) while ARE uses the Tropical zodiac, or season centered, geocentric astrology and not the constellational system
(03:15:46) (Lynn) This seems tongue in cheek to me. So, I´m not really Scorpio. Unless I want to think I am. I get two months reprieve. If I want it. lol
(03:16:15) (ron) it depends on what system being used and for what purpose
(03:16:24) (Qrious) oh.. o.k.
(03:16:39) (Qrious) lol Lynn.
(03:16:42) (ron) what does one mean 2 months off?
(03:16:46) (WalksInSpirit) My sis Debbie is a Scorpio, Lynn. :-)
(03:16:53) (ron) figure that out and we can have a conversation
(03:17:02) (Lynn) lucky gal.
(03:17:05) (ron) otherwise i am going nowwhere
(03:17:24) (Qrious) Off the mark I would think ron.
(03:17:32) (Lynn) I have it figured out according to my consideration.
(03:18:29) (ron) off the mark in what way astrologically...one can look at the sky constellations and see immediately where the sun is...in the sign one is looking at now in real time...
(03:18:48) (ron) so further understanding is required...especially regarding the subject of astrology
(03:19:00) (Qrious) well.. was a gregorian calender used? .. lol
(03:19:09) (ron) About 2000 B.C. the signs and the constellations coincided, and March 21, or the vernal equinox, lay in the sign of the Ram or Aries. Now the signs and constellations are almost one sign apart. One almanac says that the chart of the zodiac showing the human body surrounded by the symbols of the zodiac was first published about the year 1300.
(03:19:48) (ron) However, as years passed, the zodiac moved slowly backward along the path of the Sun, and the distance covered up to the present time is close to thirty degrees. This means that the sign of Aries now contains the constellation Pisces; the sign Taurus now contains the constellation Aries, etc. Astronomical observers, the almanac says, use the constellations. This can readily be interpreted from the signs by going backward one symbol.
(03:21:17) (ron) Astronomers generally agree that it takes 26,000 years, approximately, for the Sun and its family of planets to revolve around the central Sun, Arcturus. This backward revolution is called the precession of the equinoxes. Thus, in 2,100 years, the backward movement puts the vernal equinox one sign behind.
(03:21:53) (ron) Astronomers do not agree as to what degree of the sign of Pisces is now occupied by the Sun at the vernal equinox: 9 degrees is suggested by one, and 3 degrees by another, etc. At any rate, we are nearing the beginning degrees of the Piscean constellation and thus getting closer to the later degrees of the sign of Aquarius. It is conceded that Jesus of Nazareth lived and carried on His ministry in the early Piscean Age.
(03:21:58) (Qrious) well.. both it seems now ron.. if they are now 30 degrees further apart.. then the dates would change dramatically.
(03:22:20) (ron) what do you mean by "dates"?
(03:22:36) (ron) today is not june 3rd?
(03:22:40) (Qrious) time periods..
(03:23:31) (ron) It is easy to see, then, that the statement about two signs off (for the March 18 individual) is partially explained. According to hints and statements in the Cayce life readings, as this writer interprets them, the error of an additional sign off may be explained by erroneous adjustments of calendars The Persian calendar and the zodiacal signs are supposed to be
(03:23:42) (ron) the most accurate. In life reading 2011-3, the entity was very much interested in astrology and was told that this stemmed from an experience in Egypt.
(03:24:08) (Qrious) if the constellations are moving away.. then the earth spining on its axis would show a different contelation than we are accustomed to.
(03:24:18) (ron) true
(03:24:48) (Lynn) Do not destroy the dream.
(03:24:49) (ron) ...the entity was put in command of the preparations for the associations in the land of Saad and the Golden City, and the Mongoloid land. For to these three the entity was sent to act as an interpreter of the various astrological conditions that were to be drawn [up] by the various groups...The interests of the entity in those pertaining to astrology arise from
(03:25:22) (ron) that sojourn, also [things] pertaining to buildings, geometrical signs, symbols, pictures, things that illustrate...For the Egyptian and the Persian records are quite varied [at variance]. If the entity would study astrology, do not put the signs in the Egyptian calendar but in the Persian, for the Persian interpretations are more proficient than the
(03:25:55) (ron) Egyptian. This is not belittling the efforts of the entity nor of the' Egyptians in those periods, but the variations in time have been corrected by the Persians and not by the Egyptians. The Egyptian calculations are thirty degrees off [one sign]. 2011-3
(03:26:35) (ron) Although we have a possible explanation for the second of the "two signs off," it would take an expert in the subject of ancient calendars with all their discrepancies to explain what this means in terms of the Sun in the zodiac, in the present.
(03:27:08) (ron) There are other references in the readings to the Persian calendar. One of these is from 826-8, and we include part of the reading leading up to this because it discusses the matter of which chart should be used for an individual-the physical birth or the soul birth.
(03:27:10) (Qrious) that would be due to thier understanding.. in comparison to the Persians.. the persians were more adepted it seems.
(03:27:42) (ron) (Q) Should an astrological horoscope be based on the time of physical birth or the time of soul birth?
(03:27:59) (Lynn) Depends, when was the soul born?
(03:28:01) (ron) (A) On time of physical birth; for these are merely inclinations, and because of inclinations are not the influence of will. Will is that factor of the spiritual forces or the gift, as it were, to man...as he came into material form, with which choice is made, see?
