Post by WalksInSpirit on Dec 23, 2007 0:15:49 GMT -5
The Star Of Bethlehem Study: 12-22-07
(09:14:04) (@autogreeter) Good Evening. The Red Path Chat Room welcomes you to The Star Of Bethlehem Study, Hosted By WalksInSpirit & Blu. Transcripts from The Star Of Bethlehem Study can be found here: redpath.proboards24.com/index.cgi?board=star
(09:49:57) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Well, if yall are ready, we'll do some of this article.
(09:52:03) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Holy Father, we thank You for this time together, and for all the many blessings You've given us. Bless all those here, and all those who are not with us tonight. In the Name Of Our Lord And Savior, Jesus Christ, we pray. Nunwe.
(09:52:16) (merri) Amen
(09:52:19) (@ron1) amen
(09:52:41) (@host-WalksInSpirit) THE STAR OF BETHLEHEM: AN ASTRONOMICAL AND HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE
(09:52:55) (@host-WalksInSpirit) By Susan S. Carroll
(09:53:14) (@host-WalksInSpirit) The Star of Bethlehem is one of the most powerful, and enigmatic, symbols of Christianity. Second perhaps only to the Cross of the Crucifixion, the importance of its role in the story of the Nativity of the Christ child is almost on a par with the birth itself.
(09:53:33) (@host-WalksInSpirit) However, the true origin of the Star of Bethlehem has baffled astronomers, historians, and theologians for the past two millennia.
(09:53:48) (@host-WalksInSpirit) For the purposes of this discussion we shall consider four possibilities:
(09:54:12) (@host-WalksInSpirit) *That the star was a “one-shot” occurrence - never before seen and has not been seen since; it was placed in the sky by God to announce the birth of His Son;
(09:54:29) (@host-WalksInSpirit) *That the Star was added to the story of the Nativity after the fact;
(09:54:42) (@host-WalksInSpirit) *That the Star was a real, documentable astronomical object;
(09:54:53) (@host-WalksInSpirit) *That the entire New Testament was falsified.
(09:55:12) (@host-WalksInSpirit) If you subscribe to the first theory, then we, as astronomers, have nothing to talk about. It was a supernatural miracle that defies scientific explanation.
(09:55:38) (@host-WalksInSpirit) However, many theologians insist on putting some sort of divine interpretation on the Star as part of the story of the Nativity. By admitting that the Star was a natural phenomenon, with an actual scientific explanation, is tantamount to totally removing its heavy symbolic significance. After all, how could something so miraculous have such a mundane explanation?
(09:56:08) (@host-WalksInSpirit) There is a certain amount of credence to the second theory. At the time of Jesus' birth, very few people recognized its significance. The only time the Star is mentioned at all is in the Book of Matthew. It is not mentioned in any of the other Gospel accounts of the Nativity.
(09:56:28) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Matthew, writing some time after Jesus was crucified, may have added the star to the account, because all great kings at that time had stars associated with their nativity. Jesus’ significance did not become apparent until after he began his ministry, at the approximate age of 30, the age at which Jews reach spiritual maturity.
(09:56:52) (@host-WalksInSpirit) As bizarre as the fourth theory may seem at first glance, there is a certain amount of credence to it, also. This theory holds that the entire New Testament was written by members of the Roman ruling family, for the specific purpose of splitting the Jewish people as a political and religious entity.
(09:57:14) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Rome had just fought a third war with the Jews that began in about 60 AD, and although they won the war, they knew full well that Rome could not survive another war with them, unless they could be defeated from within, using a “divide and conquer” strategy.
(09:57:36) (@host-WalksInSpirit) The character of Jesus was said to have been modeled after one Arrius Piso, who is said to have written, among other Books of the New Testament, the Book of Matthew. The rest of the New Testament was written by other members of the Piso family, one of the ruling families of Rome.
(09:57:45) (merri) wait a minute please
(09:58:32) (merri) the New Testament is only made up of 4 gospels, was the star ever mentioned in any of the Gospels not included?
(09:59:16) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Now, that, I don't know. I can research it and see and let you know what I find?
(09:59:26) (merri) ok
(09:59:28) (@host-WalksInSpirit) I have the Nag Hammadi Library.
(09:59:40) (@host-WalksInSpirit) It has the other Gospels in it.
(09:59:53) (@ron1) Wasn't Jesus mentioned by the Jewish historian Josephus?
(10:00:24) (@ron1) I have that commentary somewhere
(10:00:43) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Right, Ron. This lady goes on to say that historians and theologians shoot this fourth theory down.
(10:00:48) (@ron1) in his book The Jewish Wars
(10:01:04) (@ron1) ok
(10:01:23) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Although the strategy itself is sound, the evidence to support it is largely circumstantial, and most historians and theologians do not give it much credence.
(10:01:33) (@host-WalksInSpirit) See? ;-)
(10:01:44) (@ron1) wiping forhead over here...:)
(10:01:52) (@host-WalksInSpirit) LOL
(10:02:04) (@host-WalksInSpirit) For our purposes, however, we shall subscribe to the third theory - that the Star of Bethlehem was a genuine astronomical occurrence.
(10:02:24) (@host-WalksInSpirit) As significant as the Star of Bethlehem is to the mysticism of the Nativity, it is only mentioned once in the Bible, and that is in the Book of Matthew. Luke, whose account of the nativity is far more detailed than that of Matthew, doesn't mention the Star, or the Magi, or wise men, who came from the east, drawn by the Star.
(10:02:53) (@host-WalksInSpirit) He also makes no mention of a fearful Herod, slaughtering all male children in Bethlehem aged two and under, and the Holy Family fleeing to Egypt as a result.
(10:03:15) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Matthew, on the other hand, makes no mention of a trip to Joseph's ancestral home, Bethlehem or the decree from Caesar Augustus that brought them there. He also doesn't mention a crowded inn, a manger, or angels appearing to the shepherds in the fields.
(10:03:43) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Yet the best information we have regarding the Nativity comes from Matthew and Luke.
(10:03:56) (@ron1) and Cayce...:)
(10:04:03) (@host-WalksInSpirit) The Gospel according to Matthew was written between the years 50 - 70 AD; Luke wrote his Gospel between 58 -70 AD. Both agree that Jesus was born, in Bethlehem, during the last years of the reign of Herod the Great, that the birth was announced by a heavenly messenger, and that his actual home town was Nazareth.
(10:04:15) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Yep, Ron!
(10:04:33) (@host-WalksInSpirit) The discrepancies in their two accounts are not surprising, when one takes into account the fact that they wrote in an age of oral history and myth, and without the standards of science, history, or journalism that we take for granted today.
(10:04:57) (@host-WalksInSpirit) In fact, it could be said that those standards as regarding certain forms of modern media have not advanced at all. That two people, neither of whom were eyewitnesses, have different recollections of a story that was told to them verbally, should not surprise us in the least; this same thing happens today only too often.
(10:05:22) (merri) exactly!
(10:06:17) (@host-WalksInSpirit) It is generally accepted by most scholars that Christ was born sometime between 7BC and 1 BC. There are a number of historical markers that allow us to pin the date down to this time period.
(10:06:46) (@host-WalksInSpirit) There were also some incredibly spectacular astronomical events that occurred during this period as well. Let us first look at the historical background.
(10:07:13) (@host-WalksInSpirit) During this period, the Roman Empire was enjoying a time of unparalleled peace and prosperity. Augustus Caesar, the Roman emperor, had begun to recall many of his troops in outlying provinces starting in 7 BC and release them from duty.
(10:07:56) (@host-WalksInSpirit) In the year 2 BC Rome celebrated its 750th year since it was founded, as determined by the records of the Roman priests - the Romans at that time determined that Rome was built in the year 753 BC.
(10:08:14) (@host-WalksInSpirit) This also coincided with the 25th jubilee year of the reign of Caesar Augustus as Emperor of the Romans.
(10:08:32) (@host-WalksInSpirit) In August of 2 BC there were great festivals in Rome and throughout the provinces and kingdoms allied with Rome. People came to the festivities from all over the Empire and beyond.
(10:09:04) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Also, in 2 BC, Augustus finally dedicated, after many delays, the new Forum bearing his name. But possibly the most significant event that occurred in 2 BC was that Augustus was given his most prestigious title, the highest honor that could be bestowed on any Roman - that of "Pater Patriae," or "Father of the Country."
(10:09:11) (merri) they sure knew how to build a building!
(10:09:27) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Yep!
(10:09:41) (@host-WalksInSpirit) A decree went out from Augustus that required "the entire Roman people" to register their approval of Augustus receiving this title, before it could be bestowed upon him.
(10:10:02) (merri) how democratic!
(10:10:32) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Yep! wish it was like that here! LOL
(10:10:43) (merri) LOL
(10:10:47) (@host-WalksInSpirit) This oath took place in the late summer and early fall of 3 BC and was required of all Roman citizens and others of distinguished rank among the client kingdoms associated with Rome. By the year 2 BC, Augustus was seen by the Romans as the "Prince of Peace."
(10:11:14) (@host-WalksInSpirit) This universal census of allegiance to Augustus was demanded of those who claimed any kind of authority within the Empire. It was also required of any person, most notably the Jewish communities, who could trace their ancestry back to the great Jewish royal families.
(10:11:48) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Jesus' parents, Mary and Joseph, both being descendants of King David, fell into this category. They, among others, were required to swear an oath that neither they, nor any of their offspring would usurp the throne.
(10:12:12) (@host-WalksInSpirit) It was Jewish custom that, during such a census, each travel to the city of their ancestry. In the case of Mary and Joseph, this city was the city of David - Bethlehem.
(10:12:44) (@host-WalksInSpirit) It was also customary for provincial Romans to periodically have their citizenships affirmed and imperial privileges renewed . The normal thing for Roman provincials was to do this in their native city. However, Romans in outlying provinces of Asia Minor were not always able to do this, so a number of "archive cities" were established throughout Asia Minor where Roman imperial records were deposited.
(10:13:31) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Roman provincials in Asia Minor could then prove their citizenship by reference to these records. If the oath to Caesar Augustus required Roman provincials to travel to these cities, then Luke's statement that "everyone went into his own city" (Luke 2:3) might apply to Roman provincials as well as non-Romans.
(10:13:49) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Romans were evidently required to renew these privileges every five years. Furthermore, there were official censuses held every 20 years for taxation purposes. The last such census had occurred in 8 BC, making 3 BC exactly five years from the previous Roman census.
(10:14:08) (@host-WalksInSpirit) At this time, Herod the Great was king of Judaea. He was appointed King by Augustus; he did not inherit the title. Herod was not even a Jew; he was Idumaenean by birth, and a commoner at that, and yet, as King of Judaea, was the ruler of a large segment of the Jewish population.
(10:14:39) (@host-WalksInSpirit) This made him immensely unpopular among the Jewish people. Furthermore, his father, Antipater, Rome's representative in Judaea, had paved the way for the overthrow of the Hasmoneans, the Jewish royal family in power who were very popular.
(10:15:09) (@host-WalksInSpirit) This didn't go over too well, either. To appease the Jews, Herod took, as his second wife, Mariamne, a member of the Hasmonean family. This had little effect; Herod was universally despised by the Jews, and he knew it. This, among other things, made him paranoid and delusional.
(10:15:32) (@host-WalksInSpirit) During his reign, Antipater, his eldest son by his first wife, Doris, convinced Herod that the two young royal sons, born to Mariamne, were plotting against their father. Herod immediately had them executed.
(10:15:49) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Later, he had Mariamne and her mother executed as well. These executions infuriated the Jewish people. Ironically, just before his death, Herod had Antipater himself executed - for allegedly attempting to assassinate his father by poisoning him, and then attempting a military coup.
(10:16:19) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Now let's take a look at the astronomical events that corresponded to this period in history. There were probably as many or more people, percentage-wise, interested in astronomical occurrences and their interpretations at this period of history than at any other time in western civilization.
(10:16:27) (merri) aaah Love among the Royals!
(10:16:44) (@host-WalksInSpirit) ;-)
(10:16:49) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Astrological matters at this time in history were believed by most people to be reliable scientific indicators of present and future events, especially those involving rulers of the various countries.
(10:17:00) (@ron1) I like the way this wriiter substitutes astronomers in place of astrologers...
(10:17:18) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Me too, Ron.
(10:17:25) (@host-WalksInSpirit) The notable exception to this were the Jews. To them, Gentile forms of astrology were blasphemy; they did not believe that the stars should be used to predict the future.
(10:17:51) (@host-WalksInSpirit) However, they did believe that the stars were signs of God's works; there are several indications in the Old Testament, starting with Genesis 1:14, that God placed the stars in the sky as signs, to make known His wishes and actions.
(10:18:25) (@host-WalksInSpirit) During this period of history, there was no clear distinction between astronomy and astrology. The motions of the stars and planets were charted, and this information used to determine the events of history, and the fate of people's lives, most notably that of royal families.
(10:18:38) (@ron1) an aparent contradiction...regarding the above two paragraphs...
(10:19:25) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Of the various groups of priests and astrologers/astronomers of this period, the group that garnered the most respect were the Magi. The word "Magi" is plural for "magus," which is the root of the word "magic" in the English language.
(10:22:13) (@host-WalksInSpirit) The origins of the Magi are not entirely clear, but they are believed to have had their beginnings with the teachings of Zoroaster, sometime around 1000 BC. Zoroaster was a religious leader and teacher in the region of Persia where the Magi were thought to have their origins.
(10:22:38) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Zoroaster espoused monotheism, and taught that at sometime in the future, there would arise a king who would raise the dead and transform the world into a kingdom of peace and security. Interestingly enough, the Zoroastrian traditions associated with this prophesied king said that the king would come forth from the descendants of Abraham.
(10:23:05) (@host-WalksInSpirit) The Magi were not simple astrologers; they were professional astronomers as well. Over the centuries they became important members of royal courts, often serving as emissaries to the kings by whom they were employed.
(10:23:34) (@host-WalksInSpirit) The secrets of their teachings were reserved for other members of their profession and royalty. The Magi, particularly those from the eastern parts of what was then considered to be the civilized world, were held in high esteem.
(10:23:58) (@host-WalksInSpirit) In 7 BC there was a triple conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn. All three meetings of the two planets occurred in the constellation Pisces, long associated with the Hebrew nation, a phenomenon that occurs only once every approximately 900 years.
(10:24:26) (@host-WalksInSpirit) The first conjunction occurred in late May, the second in September, and the third in early December.
(10:24:51) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Although the two planets never came closer together than about two diameters of the moon, and therefore could hardly have been seen as a single star, these events would have had great significance to the trained astronomers of the time. Jupiter was known as the "planet of Kings" and Saturn as the "Protector of the Jews."
(10:25:10) (@host-WalksInSpirit) This could easily have been interpreted as a sign that the Jewish Messiah had been, or was about to be, born.
(10:25:28) (@host-WalksInSpirit) In February of 6 BC a massing of three planets occurred, again in the constellation Pisces, when Jupiter, Mars and Saturn came within 8 degrees of each other.
(10:25:56) (@host-WalksInSpirit) This event occurs only once every 800 years, approximately, and again, would have had great significance to the astronomers of the time. Both of these rare events would have been predicted by the ancient astronomers.
(10:26:36) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Chinese astronomers recorded a nova in the constellation Capricorn that was visible during March-April of 5 BC. It was visible for over 70 days. But Matthew indicates that the star moved from the eastern sky to the south.
(10:26:51) (@host-WalksInSpirit) A nova in Capricorn, some 40 degrees off the ecliptic, would not have moved much at all, with respect to Earth; it would have remained in the same place with respect to the celestial background.
(10:27:26) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Chinese astronomers also recorded two comets - one in 5 BC and one in 4 BC. The comet of 5 BC had an observable tail; the comet the following year did not. Although the Chinese thought of comets as "broom stars" - sweeping away the old and bringing in the new, and thus, looked upon them with favor, many astronomers, as well as the general populace, in Persia and the Roman empire did not share this view.
(10:27:46) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Comets were felt to be harbingers of disaster; it is therefore highly unlikely that a comet could have been the star that announced the birth of the Jewish Messiah, or that inspired the Magi to make the long journey to Bethlehem. Furthermore, Matthew's account clearly described a star; it is highly unlikely that he would have mistaken a comet for a star.
(10:28:13) (@host-WalksInSpirit) However, these astronomical events, exciting as they were, pale by comparison to the events of an 18 month period during 3-2 BC. This was one of the most remarkable periods in terms of celestial events in the last 3000 years.
(10:28:41) (@host-WalksInSpirit) These celestial events no doubt inspired many wonderful and mystical interpretations, by the priests and religious peoples of those times. And coincidentally, they occurred when the entire Roman empire was in celebration. It was as though the heavens were confirming the greatness of the sovereignty of the Roman Empire in general, and Caesar Augustus in particular.
(10:29:10) (@host-WalksInSpirit) On May 19, 3 BC, the planets Saturn and Mercury were in close conjunction - within 40' (minutes of arc) of each other. Then Saturn moved eastward through the stars to meet with Venus on June 12, 3BC. During this conjunction the two were only 7.2' apart. And if this weren't enough, on August 12, 3 BC, Jupiter and Venus came into close conjunction just before sunrise, coming within 4.2' from each other as viewed from earth, and appearing as a very bright morning star.
(10:29:50) (@host-WalksInSpirit) This conjunction took place in the constellation Cancer, the "end" sign of the Zodiac. Ten months later, on June 17 2BC, Venus and Jupiter joined again, this time in the constellation Leo. The two planets were at best 6" (arc seconds) apart; some calculations indicate that they actually overlapped each other.
(10:30:10) (@host-WalksInSpirit) This conjunction occurred during the evening and would have appeared as one very bright star. Even if they were 6" apart, it would have required the sharpest of eyes to split the two, because of their brightness.
(10:30:45) (@host-WalksInSpirit) The constellation Leo was not only considered the "head" or "chief" sign of the Zodiac, it was thought to be ruled by the sun, the "chief" star of the heavens. It was considered the "Royal Constellation," dominated by the star Regulus. The name Regulus itself is derived from the Latin word for king; it was considered the "King Star."
(10:31:10) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Leo was also considered the beginning zodiacal sign for the astrological year and was thought to denote royalty and power for any of the planets found within it. Jupiter was regarded by the Roman people to be the guardian and ruler of the Roman Empire and it was thought to have the power to determine the course of all human affairs.
(10:31:33) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Venus, now in conjunction with Jupiter, was believed to be the mother of the family of Augustus. So here were the two planets dedicated to the origins of Rome and the sovereignty of Augustus merging together in a "marriage" during one of the most glorious years in the history of Rome, and in the constellation of Leo, at that.
(10:32:10) (@host-WalksInSpirit) That this conjunction also occurred during a full moon was also important to the Romans. Full moon day was especially sacred to Jupiter, and the day itself was called "the Trust of Jupiter."
(10:32:26) (@host-WalksInSpirit) It was celebrated as a time when faith and trust were supposed to be given to the guardian and ruler of the Empire of Rome, whether human or divine (and in the case of Augustus, there was little distinction).
(09:49:57) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Well, if yall are ready, we'll do some of this article.
(09:52:03) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Holy Father, we thank You for this time together, and for all the many blessings You've given us. Bless all those here, and all those who are not with us tonight. In the Name Of Our Lord And Savior, Jesus Christ, we pray. Nunwe.
(09:52:16) (merri) Amen
(09:52:19) (@ron1) amen
(09:52:41) (@host-WalksInSpirit) THE STAR OF BETHLEHEM: AN ASTRONOMICAL AND HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE
(09:52:55) (@host-WalksInSpirit) By Susan S. Carroll
(09:53:14) (@host-WalksInSpirit) The Star of Bethlehem is one of the most powerful, and enigmatic, symbols of Christianity. Second perhaps only to the Cross of the Crucifixion, the importance of its role in the story of the Nativity of the Christ child is almost on a par with the birth itself.
(09:53:33) (@host-WalksInSpirit) However, the true origin of the Star of Bethlehem has baffled astronomers, historians, and theologians for the past two millennia.
(09:53:48) (@host-WalksInSpirit) For the purposes of this discussion we shall consider four possibilities:
(09:54:12) (@host-WalksInSpirit) *That the star was a “one-shot” occurrence - never before seen and has not been seen since; it was placed in the sky by God to announce the birth of His Son;
(09:54:29) (@host-WalksInSpirit) *That the Star was added to the story of the Nativity after the fact;
(09:54:42) (@host-WalksInSpirit) *That the Star was a real, documentable astronomical object;
(09:54:53) (@host-WalksInSpirit) *That the entire New Testament was falsified.
(09:55:12) (@host-WalksInSpirit) If you subscribe to the first theory, then we, as astronomers, have nothing to talk about. It was a supernatural miracle that defies scientific explanation.
(09:55:38) (@host-WalksInSpirit) However, many theologians insist on putting some sort of divine interpretation on the Star as part of the story of the Nativity. By admitting that the Star was a natural phenomenon, with an actual scientific explanation, is tantamount to totally removing its heavy symbolic significance. After all, how could something so miraculous have such a mundane explanation?
(09:56:08) (@host-WalksInSpirit) There is a certain amount of credence to the second theory. At the time of Jesus' birth, very few people recognized its significance. The only time the Star is mentioned at all is in the Book of Matthew. It is not mentioned in any of the other Gospel accounts of the Nativity.
(09:56:28) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Matthew, writing some time after Jesus was crucified, may have added the star to the account, because all great kings at that time had stars associated with their nativity. Jesus’ significance did not become apparent until after he began his ministry, at the approximate age of 30, the age at which Jews reach spiritual maturity.
(09:56:52) (@host-WalksInSpirit) As bizarre as the fourth theory may seem at first glance, there is a certain amount of credence to it, also. This theory holds that the entire New Testament was written by members of the Roman ruling family, for the specific purpose of splitting the Jewish people as a political and religious entity.
(09:57:14) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Rome had just fought a third war with the Jews that began in about 60 AD, and although they won the war, they knew full well that Rome could not survive another war with them, unless they could be defeated from within, using a “divide and conquer” strategy.
(09:57:36) (@host-WalksInSpirit) The character of Jesus was said to have been modeled after one Arrius Piso, who is said to have written, among other Books of the New Testament, the Book of Matthew. The rest of the New Testament was written by other members of the Piso family, one of the ruling families of Rome.
(09:57:45) (merri) wait a minute please
(09:58:32) (merri) the New Testament is only made up of 4 gospels, was the star ever mentioned in any of the Gospels not included?
(09:59:16) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Now, that, I don't know. I can research it and see and let you know what I find?
(09:59:26) (merri) ok
(09:59:28) (@host-WalksInSpirit) I have the Nag Hammadi Library.
(09:59:40) (@host-WalksInSpirit) It has the other Gospels in it.
(09:59:53) (@ron1) Wasn't Jesus mentioned by the Jewish historian Josephus?
(10:00:24) (@ron1) I have that commentary somewhere
(10:00:43) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Right, Ron. This lady goes on to say that historians and theologians shoot this fourth theory down.
(10:00:48) (@ron1) in his book The Jewish Wars
(10:01:04) (@ron1) ok
(10:01:23) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Although the strategy itself is sound, the evidence to support it is largely circumstantial, and most historians and theologians do not give it much credence.
(10:01:33) (@host-WalksInSpirit) See? ;-)
(10:01:44) (@ron1) wiping forhead over here...:)
(10:01:52) (@host-WalksInSpirit) LOL
(10:02:04) (@host-WalksInSpirit) For our purposes, however, we shall subscribe to the third theory - that the Star of Bethlehem was a genuine astronomical occurrence.
(10:02:24) (@host-WalksInSpirit) As significant as the Star of Bethlehem is to the mysticism of the Nativity, it is only mentioned once in the Bible, and that is in the Book of Matthew. Luke, whose account of the nativity is far more detailed than that of Matthew, doesn't mention the Star, or the Magi, or wise men, who came from the east, drawn by the Star.
(10:02:53) (@host-WalksInSpirit) He also makes no mention of a fearful Herod, slaughtering all male children in Bethlehem aged two and under, and the Holy Family fleeing to Egypt as a result.
(10:03:15) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Matthew, on the other hand, makes no mention of a trip to Joseph's ancestral home, Bethlehem or the decree from Caesar Augustus that brought them there. He also doesn't mention a crowded inn, a manger, or angels appearing to the shepherds in the fields.
(10:03:43) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Yet the best information we have regarding the Nativity comes from Matthew and Luke.
(10:03:56) (@ron1) and Cayce...:)
(10:04:03) (@host-WalksInSpirit) The Gospel according to Matthew was written between the years 50 - 70 AD; Luke wrote his Gospel between 58 -70 AD. Both agree that Jesus was born, in Bethlehem, during the last years of the reign of Herod the Great, that the birth was announced by a heavenly messenger, and that his actual home town was Nazareth.
(10:04:15) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Yep, Ron!
(10:04:33) (@host-WalksInSpirit) The discrepancies in their two accounts are not surprising, when one takes into account the fact that they wrote in an age of oral history and myth, and without the standards of science, history, or journalism that we take for granted today.
(10:04:57) (@host-WalksInSpirit) In fact, it could be said that those standards as regarding certain forms of modern media have not advanced at all. That two people, neither of whom were eyewitnesses, have different recollections of a story that was told to them verbally, should not surprise us in the least; this same thing happens today only too often.
(10:05:22) (merri) exactly!
(10:06:17) (@host-WalksInSpirit) It is generally accepted by most scholars that Christ was born sometime between 7BC and 1 BC. There are a number of historical markers that allow us to pin the date down to this time period.
(10:06:46) (@host-WalksInSpirit) There were also some incredibly spectacular astronomical events that occurred during this period as well. Let us first look at the historical background.
(10:07:13) (@host-WalksInSpirit) During this period, the Roman Empire was enjoying a time of unparalleled peace and prosperity. Augustus Caesar, the Roman emperor, had begun to recall many of his troops in outlying provinces starting in 7 BC and release them from duty.
(10:07:56) (@host-WalksInSpirit) In the year 2 BC Rome celebrated its 750th year since it was founded, as determined by the records of the Roman priests - the Romans at that time determined that Rome was built in the year 753 BC.
(10:08:14) (@host-WalksInSpirit) This also coincided with the 25th jubilee year of the reign of Caesar Augustus as Emperor of the Romans.
(10:08:32) (@host-WalksInSpirit) In August of 2 BC there were great festivals in Rome and throughout the provinces and kingdoms allied with Rome. People came to the festivities from all over the Empire and beyond.
(10:09:04) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Also, in 2 BC, Augustus finally dedicated, after many delays, the new Forum bearing his name. But possibly the most significant event that occurred in 2 BC was that Augustus was given his most prestigious title, the highest honor that could be bestowed on any Roman - that of "Pater Patriae," or "Father of the Country."
(10:09:11) (merri) they sure knew how to build a building!
(10:09:27) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Yep!
(10:09:41) (@host-WalksInSpirit) A decree went out from Augustus that required "the entire Roman people" to register their approval of Augustus receiving this title, before it could be bestowed upon him.
(10:10:02) (merri) how democratic!
(10:10:32) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Yep! wish it was like that here! LOL
(10:10:43) (merri) LOL
(10:10:47) (@host-WalksInSpirit) This oath took place in the late summer and early fall of 3 BC and was required of all Roman citizens and others of distinguished rank among the client kingdoms associated with Rome. By the year 2 BC, Augustus was seen by the Romans as the "Prince of Peace."
(10:11:14) (@host-WalksInSpirit) This universal census of allegiance to Augustus was demanded of those who claimed any kind of authority within the Empire. It was also required of any person, most notably the Jewish communities, who could trace their ancestry back to the great Jewish royal families.
(10:11:48) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Jesus' parents, Mary and Joseph, both being descendants of King David, fell into this category. They, among others, were required to swear an oath that neither they, nor any of their offspring would usurp the throne.
(10:12:12) (@host-WalksInSpirit) It was Jewish custom that, during such a census, each travel to the city of their ancestry. In the case of Mary and Joseph, this city was the city of David - Bethlehem.
(10:12:44) (@host-WalksInSpirit) It was also customary for provincial Romans to periodically have their citizenships affirmed and imperial privileges renewed . The normal thing for Roman provincials was to do this in their native city. However, Romans in outlying provinces of Asia Minor were not always able to do this, so a number of "archive cities" were established throughout Asia Minor where Roman imperial records were deposited.
(10:13:31) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Roman provincials in Asia Minor could then prove their citizenship by reference to these records. If the oath to Caesar Augustus required Roman provincials to travel to these cities, then Luke's statement that "everyone went into his own city" (Luke 2:3) might apply to Roman provincials as well as non-Romans.
(10:13:49) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Romans were evidently required to renew these privileges every five years. Furthermore, there were official censuses held every 20 years for taxation purposes. The last such census had occurred in 8 BC, making 3 BC exactly five years from the previous Roman census.
(10:14:08) (@host-WalksInSpirit) At this time, Herod the Great was king of Judaea. He was appointed King by Augustus; he did not inherit the title. Herod was not even a Jew; he was Idumaenean by birth, and a commoner at that, and yet, as King of Judaea, was the ruler of a large segment of the Jewish population.
(10:14:39) (@host-WalksInSpirit) This made him immensely unpopular among the Jewish people. Furthermore, his father, Antipater, Rome's representative in Judaea, had paved the way for the overthrow of the Hasmoneans, the Jewish royal family in power who were very popular.
(10:15:09) (@host-WalksInSpirit) This didn't go over too well, either. To appease the Jews, Herod took, as his second wife, Mariamne, a member of the Hasmonean family. This had little effect; Herod was universally despised by the Jews, and he knew it. This, among other things, made him paranoid and delusional.
(10:15:32) (@host-WalksInSpirit) During his reign, Antipater, his eldest son by his first wife, Doris, convinced Herod that the two young royal sons, born to Mariamne, were plotting against their father. Herod immediately had them executed.
(10:15:49) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Later, he had Mariamne and her mother executed as well. These executions infuriated the Jewish people. Ironically, just before his death, Herod had Antipater himself executed - for allegedly attempting to assassinate his father by poisoning him, and then attempting a military coup.
(10:16:19) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Now let's take a look at the astronomical events that corresponded to this period in history. There were probably as many or more people, percentage-wise, interested in astronomical occurrences and their interpretations at this period of history than at any other time in western civilization.
(10:16:27) (merri) aaah Love among the Royals!
(10:16:44) (@host-WalksInSpirit) ;-)
(10:16:49) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Astrological matters at this time in history were believed by most people to be reliable scientific indicators of present and future events, especially those involving rulers of the various countries.
(10:17:00) (@ron1) I like the way this wriiter substitutes astronomers in place of astrologers...
(10:17:18) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Me too, Ron.
(10:17:25) (@host-WalksInSpirit) The notable exception to this were the Jews. To them, Gentile forms of astrology were blasphemy; they did not believe that the stars should be used to predict the future.
(10:17:51) (@host-WalksInSpirit) However, they did believe that the stars were signs of God's works; there are several indications in the Old Testament, starting with Genesis 1:14, that God placed the stars in the sky as signs, to make known His wishes and actions.
(10:18:25) (@host-WalksInSpirit) During this period of history, there was no clear distinction between astronomy and astrology. The motions of the stars and planets were charted, and this information used to determine the events of history, and the fate of people's lives, most notably that of royal families.
(10:18:38) (@ron1) an aparent contradiction...regarding the above two paragraphs...
(10:19:25) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Of the various groups of priests and astrologers/astronomers of this period, the group that garnered the most respect were the Magi. The word "Magi" is plural for "magus," which is the root of the word "magic" in the English language.
(10:22:13) (@host-WalksInSpirit) The origins of the Magi are not entirely clear, but they are believed to have had their beginnings with the teachings of Zoroaster, sometime around 1000 BC. Zoroaster was a religious leader and teacher in the region of Persia where the Magi were thought to have their origins.
(10:22:38) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Zoroaster espoused monotheism, and taught that at sometime in the future, there would arise a king who would raise the dead and transform the world into a kingdom of peace and security. Interestingly enough, the Zoroastrian traditions associated with this prophesied king said that the king would come forth from the descendants of Abraham.
(10:23:05) (@host-WalksInSpirit) The Magi were not simple astrologers; they were professional astronomers as well. Over the centuries they became important members of royal courts, often serving as emissaries to the kings by whom they were employed.
(10:23:34) (@host-WalksInSpirit) The secrets of their teachings were reserved for other members of their profession and royalty. The Magi, particularly those from the eastern parts of what was then considered to be the civilized world, were held in high esteem.
(10:23:58) (@host-WalksInSpirit) In 7 BC there was a triple conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn. All three meetings of the two planets occurred in the constellation Pisces, long associated with the Hebrew nation, a phenomenon that occurs only once every approximately 900 years.
(10:24:26) (@host-WalksInSpirit) The first conjunction occurred in late May, the second in September, and the third in early December.
(10:24:51) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Although the two planets never came closer together than about two diameters of the moon, and therefore could hardly have been seen as a single star, these events would have had great significance to the trained astronomers of the time. Jupiter was known as the "planet of Kings" and Saturn as the "Protector of the Jews."
(10:25:10) (@host-WalksInSpirit) This could easily have been interpreted as a sign that the Jewish Messiah had been, or was about to be, born.
(10:25:28) (@host-WalksInSpirit) In February of 6 BC a massing of three planets occurred, again in the constellation Pisces, when Jupiter, Mars and Saturn came within 8 degrees of each other.
(10:25:56) (@host-WalksInSpirit) This event occurs only once every 800 years, approximately, and again, would have had great significance to the astronomers of the time. Both of these rare events would have been predicted by the ancient astronomers.
(10:26:36) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Chinese astronomers recorded a nova in the constellation Capricorn that was visible during March-April of 5 BC. It was visible for over 70 days. But Matthew indicates that the star moved from the eastern sky to the south.
(10:26:51) (@host-WalksInSpirit) A nova in Capricorn, some 40 degrees off the ecliptic, would not have moved much at all, with respect to Earth; it would have remained in the same place with respect to the celestial background.
(10:27:26) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Chinese astronomers also recorded two comets - one in 5 BC and one in 4 BC. The comet of 5 BC had an observable tail; the comet the following year did not. Although the Chinese thought of comets as "broom stars" - sweeping away the old and bringing in the new, and thus, looked upon them with favor, many astronomers, as well as the general populace, in Persia and the Roman empire did not share this view.
(10:27:46) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Comets were felt to be harbingers of disaster; it is therefore highly unlikely that a comet could have been the star that announced the birth of the Jewish Messiah, or that inspired the Magi to make the long journey to Bethlehem. Furthermore, Matthew's account clearly described a star; it is highly unlikely that he would have mistaken a comet for a star.
(10:28:13) (@host-WalksInSpirit) However, these astronomical events, exciting as they were, pale by comparison to the events of an 18 month period during 3-2 BC. This was one of the most remarkable periods in terms of celestial events in the last 3000 years.
(10:28:41) (@host-WalksInSpirit) These celestial events no doubt inspired many wonderful and mystical interpretations, by the priests and religious peoples of those times. And coincidentally, they occurred when the entire Roman empire was in celebration. It was as though the heavens were confirming the greatness of the sovereignty of the Roman Empire in general, and Caesar Augustus in particular.
(10:29:10) (@host-WalksInSpirit) On May 19, 3 BC, the planets Saturn and Mercury were in close conjunction - within 40' (minutes of arc) of each other. Then Saturn moved eastward through the stars to meet with Venus on June 12, 3BC. During this conjunction the two were only 7.2' apart. And if this weren't enough, on August 12, 3 BC, Jupiter and Venus came into close conjunction just before sunrise, coming within 4.2' from each other as viewed from earth, and appearing as a very bright morning star.
(10:29:50) (@host-WalksInSpirit) This conjunction took place in the constellation Cancer, the "end" sign of the Zodiac. Ten months later, on June 17 2BC, Venus and Jupiter joined again, this time in the constellation Leo. The two planets were at best 6" (arc seconds) apart; some calculations indicate that they actually overlapped each other.
(10:30:10) (@host-WalksInSpirit) This conjunction occurred during the evening and would have appeared as one very bright star. Even if they were 6" apart, it would have required the sharpest of eyes to split the two, because of their brightness.
(10:30:45) (@host-WalksInSpirit) The constellation Leo was not only considered the "head" or "chief" sign of the Zodiac, it was thought to be ruled by the sun, the "chief" star of the heavens. It was considered the "Royal Constellation," dominated by the star Regulus. The name Regulus itself is derived from the Latin word for king; it was considered the "King Star."
(10:31:10) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Leo was also considered the beginning zodiacal sign for the astrological year and was thought to denote royalty and power for any of the planets found within it. Jupiter was regarded by the Roman people to be the guardian and ruler of the Roman Empire and it was thought to have the power to determine the course of all human affairs.
(10:31:33) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Venus, now in conjunction with Jupiter, was believed to be the mother of the family of Augustus. So here were the two planets dedicated to the origins of Rome and the sovereignty of Augustus merging together in a "marriage" during one of the most glorious years in the history of Rome, and in the constellation of Leo, at that.
(10:32:10) (@host-WalksInSpirit) That this conjunction also occurred during a full moon was also important to the Romans. Full moon day was especially sacred to Jupiter, and the day itself was called "the Trust of Jupiter."
(10:32:26) (@host-WalksInSpirit) It was celebrated as a time when faith and trust were supposed to be given to the guardian and ruler of the Empire of Rome, whether human or divine (and in the case of Augustus, there was little distinction).