Post by WalksInSpirit on Dec 13, 2007 22:49:08 GMT -5
The Star Of Bethlehem Study: 12-13-07
(09:10:04) (@autogreeter) Good Evening. The Red Path Chat Room welcomes you to The Star Of Bethlehem Study, Hosted By WalksInSpirit & Blu. Transcripts from The Star Of Bethlehem Study can be found here: redpath.proboards24.com/index.cgi?board=star
(09:18:40) (@host-WalksInSpirit) I'll start us off with prayer and then we'll pick up where we left off Tuesday night.
(09:22:00) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Holy Father, we thank You for this opportunity to gather together and fellowship and seek You. Father, we thank You for all those here and all the friends who could not be here tonight. We ask special blessings on each one. We thank You for that Star that led the Wise Men to Bethlehem so long ago, and especially for Your Son whom You sent to become the pattern for us all, so we might have eternal life. In Your Holy Name, we pray these things. Nunwe
(09:22:29) (merri) Amen
(09:23:10) (@ron1) amen
(09:23:23) (Qrious) ameni
(09:24:07) (@host-WalksInSpirit) In 1999, astronomer Michael R. Molnar published the results of his investigations in the book The Star of Bethlehem: The Legacy of the Magi.
(09:24:27) (@host-WalksInSpirit) In contrast to other suggested events involving other constellations such as Leo, Virgo, or Pisces, Molnar had discovered evidence from multiple sources indicating that the stargazers of that time considered the constellation of Aries the Ram to be associated with the people of "Judea, Idumea, Samaria, Palestine, and Coele Syria", i.e. the lands ruled by King Herod.
(09:24:56) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Additional evidence indicated that a special occultation of Jupiter by the moon that occurred in the east in Aries on 17 April 6 BC signified the birth of a great Jewish king.
(09:25:17) (@host-WalksInSpirit) A spring date for the birth also corresponds with Luke's account of the birth in which shepherds were watching their flocks by night. In the spring, shepherds would be watching their flocks at night in order to be ready to aid in the birth of new lambs.
(09:25:50) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Regarding Matthew's statements that the star "went before" and "stood over", Molnar and others have maintained that the Greek words used there refer to Jupiter's retrogradation
(09:26:09) (@host-WalksInSpirit) (i.e. apparent but not actual retrograde motion) and stationing, respectively, as the movement of Jupiter against the background of the stars appears to reverse course for a time and then stops before resuming the normal progression.
(09:26:31) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Stargazers attached significance to these movements of the wandering stars (i.e. the planets).
(09:27:00) (@host-WalksInSpirit) A modern astrological interpretation of Matthew's account of the star, based on the Magi role as astrologers, claims to "decode" the Star of Bethlehem as a star configuration that was visible only to astrologers because the "star" was revealed in an astrological chart.
(09:27:23) (@host-WalksInSpirit) *The above article is from: article.gmane.org/gmane.culture.templar.rosemont/2137
(09:27:52) (@host-WalksInSpirit) The 2006 Passover Lunar Occultation of Spica Something is Going On Here By Steve Santini2/21/06
(09:28:19) (@host-WalksInSpirit) On the first moment of the annual Hebrew Passover Feast commencing the evening of April 13, 2006, there will be a discrete yet profoundly unique heavenly sign.
(09:28:35) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Over Jerusalem, as the sun sets in Pisces in the west, the full moon will rise in the east completely occulting the star Spica, in the sign of Virgo. Within the hour the event will have passed yet its message should be significant.
(09:29:33) (@host-WalksInSpirit) At 6:00 pm the occultation will be in its height with the star Spica behind the moon as viewed from Jerusalem. Six pm is the beginning of a new day in Hebrew culture. Six pm on April 13 is not only the beginning of a new day, it is the first of the seven days of the Passover Feast in 2006 and as such it is the beginning of the new Hebrew spiritual year.
(09:30:04) (@host-WalksInSpirit) The Feast of Passover begins with the remembrance of the Hebrew night in Egypt in which the angel of the Lord slew all the firstborn males of Egypt yet preserved the firstborn males of Israel because they had slain a male lamb, sprinkled its blood on their doorposts and eaten its roasted flesh for the evening meal as instructed by Moses.
(09:30:41) (@host-WalksInSpirit) What was the Star? On April 17, 6 BC two years before King Herod died Jupiter emerged in the east as a morning star in the sign of the Jews, Aries the Ram. The account in Matthew refers twice to the Star being in the east with good reasons. When the royal star of Zeus, the planet Jupiter, was in the east this was the most powerful time to confer kingships.
(09:31:11) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Furthermore, the Sun was in Aries where it is exalted. And the Moon was in very close conjunction with Jupiter in Aries. Modern calculations suggest that this was close enough to be an occultation (eclipse).
(09:31:35) (@host-WalksInSpirit) But the Sun's glare would have hidden that event. Saturn was also present which meant that the three rulers of Aries' trine (Sun, Jupiter, and Saturn) were present in Aries. Saturn and Jupiter were said to be attendants on the rising Sun, another regal aspect for astrologers. By modern expectations this is trivial, but for ancient stargazers this configuration was truly awesome. (p. 96-101)
(09:31:53) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Was the Star the lunar eclipse (occultation) of Jupiter? The lunar occultation of Jupiter on April 17, 6 BC was just one of several astrological conditions pointing to a king's birth. The greatness of a ruler or king was said to depend on the number of regal astrological effects at the time of birth.
(09:32:20) (@host-WalksInSpirit) This distinguished, say, a low level governor from an emperor. Knowing that lunar conjunctions (close approaches) with Jupiter were one condition for a king's birth, I looked for the closest conjunctions, namely occultations in the time frame biblical scholars claim as likely for the birth of Jesus.
(09:32:53) (@host-WalksInSpirit) I quickly focused on the occultation of April 17, 6 BC after realizing that Jupiter was also "in the east" in Aries.
(09:33:20) (@host-WalksInSpirit) "In the east" is mentioned twice by Matthew because astrologers such as the Magi said this was the most important time for Jupiter to produce future kings. Moreover, the Moon's incredible nearness to Jupiter amplified that power.
(09:33:50) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Keep in mind that astrologers of Roman times were making crude calculations of planetary positions to create horoscopes, but they could not predict eclipses or occultations as we now can. However, they could estimate when these were likely.
(09:34:09) (@host-WalksInSpirit) But keep in mind that the occultation was the key to finding this incredible day which has many important conditions pointing to the birth of not just a king, but a great king in Judea. (p. 64-84)
(09:34:53) (@host-WalksInSpirit) An occultation is an event that occurs when one object is hidden by another object that passes between it and the observer. The word is used in astronomy and can also be used in a general (non-astronomical) sense to describe when an object in the foreground occults (covers up) objects in the background.
(09:35:16) (@host-WalksInSpirit) In the general sense, occultation applies to the visual scene from low-flying aircraft and in Computer-Generated Image (CGI) technology, where foreground objects obscure distant ones in a dynamic way as the scene changes.
(09:35:39) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Astronomical events. These include transits and eclipses. The word transit refers to cases where the nearer object appears smaller in apparent size than the more distant object, such as transit of Mercury or Venus across the Sun's disk.
(09:35:57) (@host-WalksInSpirit) The word eclipse generally refers to those instances in which one object moves into the shadow of another. Each of these three events is the visible effect of a syzygy.
(09:36:27) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Every time an occultation occurs, an eclipse also occurs. Consider a so-called "eclipse" of the Sun by the Moon, as seen from Earth. In this event, the Moon physically moves between Earth and the Sun, thus blocking out a portion or all of the bright disk of the Sun.
(09:37:00) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Although this phenomenon is usually referred to as an "eclipse", this term is a misnomer, because the Moon is not eclipsing the Sun; instead the Moon is occulting the Sun. When the Moon occults the Sun, it casts a small shadow on the surface of the Earth, and therefore the Moon's shadow is partially eclipsing Earth.
(09:37:22) (@host-WalksInSpirit) So a so-called "solar eclipse" actually consists of (i) an occultation of the Sun by the Moon, as seen from Earth, and (ii) a partial eclipse of Earth by the Moon's shadow.
(09:37:46) (@host-WalksInSpirit) By contrast, an "eclipse" of the Moon is in fact a true eclipse: the Moon moves into the shadow cast back into space by Earth, and is said to be eclipsed by Earth's shadow.
(09:38:03) (@host-WalksInSpirit) As seen from the surface of the Moon, Earth passes directly between the Moon and the Sun, thus blocking or occulting the Sun as seen by a hypothetical lunar observer. Again, every eclipse also entails an occultation.
(09:38:16) (@host-WalksInSpirit) *The above article is from: article.gmane.org/gmane.culture.templar.rosemont/2137
(09:38:36) (@host-WalksInSpirit) "Jupiter underwent two occultations ("eclipses") by the Moon in Aries in 6 BC. Jupiter was the regal "star" that conferred kingships - a power that was amplified when Jupiter was in close conjunctions with the Moon.
(09:38:56) (@host-WalksInSpirit) The second occultation on April 17 coincided precisely when Jupiter was "in the east," a condition mentioned twice in the Biblical account about the Star of Bethlehem.
(09:39:15) (@host-WalksInSpirit) In August of that year Jupiter became stationary and then "went before" through Aries where it became stationary again on December 19, 6 BC. This is when the regal planet "stood over." - a secondary royal portent also described in the Bible.
(09:39:42) (@host-WalksInSpirit) In particular, there is confirmation from a Roman astrologer that the conditions of April 17, 6 BC were believed to herald the birth of a divine, immortal, and omnipotent person born under the sign of the Jews, which we now know was Aries the Ram.
(09:40:06) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Furthermore, the coins of Antioch and ancient astrological documents show that there was indeed a Star of Bethlehem as reported in the Biblical account of Matthew.
(09:40:23) (@host-WalksInSpirit) *The above article is from: article.gmane.org/gmane.culture.templar.rosemont/2137
(09:40:39) (@host-WalksInSpirit) An Astrological Look At The Star Of Bethlehem
(09:40:51) (@host-WalksInSpirit) By Nick Strobel
(09:41:05) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Introduction:
(09:41:22) (@host-WalksInSpirit) The Star of Bethlehem is a common topic of questions asked to astronomers, especially around Christmas time because it is a special astronomical phenomenon that occurred around the time of the birth of Jesus the Christ. What was the Star of Bethlehem?
(09:41:45) (@host-WalksInSpirit) The first reference to the Star of Bethlehem is in the New Testament of the Bible in the second chapter of the book called "Matthew." Here are the relevant verses from the New Revised Standard Version (NRSV, note that references are annotated as book chapter:verse(s))
(09:42:04) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Matthew 2:1--2: In the time of King Herod, after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea, wise men from the East came to Jerusalem, asking, "Where is the child who has been born king of the Jews? For we observed his star at its rising, and have come to pay him homage."
(09:42:32) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Matthew 2:7--10: Then Herod secretly called for the wise men and learned from them the exact time when the star had appeared. Then he sent them to Bethlehem, saying, "Go and search diligently for the child; and when you have found him, bring me word so that I may also go and pay him homage." When they had heard the king, they set out; and there, ahead of them, went the star that they had seen at its rising, until
(09:42:54) (@host-WalksInSpirit) it stopped over the place where the child was. When they saw that the star had stopped, they were overwhelmed with joy.
(09:43:02) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Matthew 2:12: And having been warned in a dream not to return to Herod, they left for their own country by another road.
(09:43:24) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Matthew 2:16: When Herod saw that he had been tricked by the wise men, he was infuriated, and he sent and killed all the children in and around Bethlehem who were two years old or under, according to the time that he had learned from the wise men.
(09:43:44) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Verses 12 & 16 give us some information as to the time of Jesus' birth. Another reference to the time of Jesus' birth is in the second chapter of the book called "Luke." Here are the relevant verses from the NRSV:
(09:44:10) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Luke 2:1--7: In those days a decree went out from Emperor Augustus that all the world should be registered. This was the first registration and was taken while Quirinius was governor of Syria. All went to their own towns to be registered. Joseph also went from the town of Nazareth in Galilee to Judea, to the city of David called Bethlehem, because he was descended from the house and family of David.
(09:44:24) (@host-WalksInSpirit) He went to be registered with Mary, to whom he was engaged and who was expecting a child. While they were there, the time came for her to deliver her child. And she gave birth to her firstborn son and wrapped him in bands of cloth, and laid him in a manger, because there was no place for them in the inn.
(09:44:55) (@host-WalksInSpirit) I will use the terms "C.E. = 'common era' (= A.D.)" and "B.C.E. = 'before the common era' (= B.C.)" when specifying dates.
(09:45:35) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Fixing The Date:
(09:45:52) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Though Jesus came to have a significant impact on the history and culture of western civilization, he was not considered important during his lifetime so the precise details of his birth were not recorded as they occurred.
(09:47:14) (@host-WalksInSpirit) The major non-biblical source of information about Jewish happenings around the time of Jesus' lifetime comes from the writings of the Jewish historian, Joseph ben Matthias (C.E. 37/38--around 100; also known as Flavius Josephus), called The Jewish War, written just after the fall of Jerusalem in C.E. 70, and Jewish Antiquities, written around C.E. 93--94.
(09:47:57) (@host-WalksInSpirit) However, Jesus receives just a brief mention in Josephus' writings and what is there is only about his adult life. The Roman historian Tacitus (around C.E. 56/57--around 118) mentions Jesus in only one sentence of his last large work, the Annals, and that sentence is about Jesus' death. The best information we have comes from the biblical books of Matthew and Luke that were written about 80--90 years after Jesus' birth.
(09:48:23) (@host-WalksInSpirit) The authors of Matthew and Luke did not write with our modern understanding of historical accuracy in mind and did not attach the same significance to historical, physical truth we do today.
(09:48:42) (@host-WalksInSpirit) This fact is not remembered by many Christians, agnostics, and atheists today and has led to many heated debates between them in the past few hundred years.
(09:49:11) (@host-WalksInSpirit) However, my intention is to provide the historical information that many modern inquirers are asking for. King Herod (aka "Herod the Great"), Emperor Augustus, and Quirinius were government officials in the Roman Empire so they have historical references with dates attached to them that are used as markers in the history timeline.
(09:49:40) (@host-WalksInSpirit) King Herod is also mentioned in the first chapter of Luke in reference to Jesus' cousin John the Baptizer who was approximately six months older than Jesus. Despite the differences in birth narratives given by the authors of Matthew and Luke, the fact that they do agree on Jesus being born during the reign of King Herod tells us that Jesus was very likely born sometime between 37--4 B.C.E.
(09:50:03) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Jesus was probably born just a few years before the end of Herod's reign. The "wise men from the East" pay homage to the "child" Jesus rather than to the "newborn" Jesus (contrast that with the Nativity scene of popular society today!).
(09:50:23) (@host-WalksInSpirit) This agrees with Herod's estimate of Jesus' age in his order to kill all the children (other translations narrow that to just the male children) in and around Bethlehem who were two years old or under.
(09:50:41) (@host-WalksInSpirit) The author of Matthew uses the same word to describe Jesus' age when he fled to Egypt with his parents and when he returned after Herod's death---he was a little child when he left and when he returned.
(09:50:45) (Qrious) well,,I have some info, that might help Walks. But thats for later.
(09:51:00) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Go ahead and share it with us, Qrious
(09:52:10) (Qrious) well... bare with me now... Elizabeths husband I forget his name.. was on duty during the month of Abaia... his Levitical duty when he prayed for a son.
(09:52:58) (Qrious) it was after his tenure... he went home to his wife ,, unable to speak but able to mate.
(09:54:29) (Qrious) so you count... from the month of Abaia.... 6 months hence... you will find that Christ was impregnated during the winter time period cause Mary went to visit he sister and the child lepted.. John that is.
(09:55:18) (Qrious) Jesus was conceived in the Dec.. months.. yet born during the Sept months... if memory serves.
(09:55:28) (Qrious) thats how I recalled learning it.
(09:56:08) (@ron1) If anyone is interested I have an Q & A exchange from the readings regarding the birth and the wise men...
(09:56:17) (Qrious) sure.
(09:56:25) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Well, now we just read that one of the Jupiter retrogrades that heralded a King happened in August.
(09:56:56) (@host-WalksInSpirit) I dunno how they calculated that, but they coulda been a little off
(09:57:02) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Sure, Ron
(09:57:09) (maybell) me too please ron ok?
(09:57:10) (Qrious) sept is close to aug.
(09:57:13) (@ron1) I should wait until you have finsihed...
(09:57:38) (@host-WalksInSpirit) No, go ahead! I encourage everyone to input!
(09:57:53) (Qrious) this is soo cool.
(09:58:11) (@ron1) I put this together this afternoon...
(09:58:14) (merri) Cayce said the birth was in March
(09:58:17) (@ron1) THE BIRTH OF JESUS
(09:58:31) (@host-WalksInSpirit) I just want to say while yall are all here that we'll be continuing this on Saturday night. I'll post it on the Schedule tonight so we won't forget.
(09:58:42) (@ron1) Just before midnight hour came, there was the birth of the Master. 5749-15
(09:58:48) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Yep, he did Merri
(09:58:52) (@ron1) ok...we now have the time of birth...:)
(09:59:33) (@ron1) Q. Do we celebrate Christmas at approximately the right time?
(09:59:48) (@ron1) A. (There is) not a great variation; for there have been many changes in the accounting of time, or accounting for the periods from the various times when time is counted - not for wrong; 24th, 25th of December, as ye have your time now. 5749-7
(10:00:24) (@ron1) Q. In one reading we are told that Jesus' birthday is on March 19 - "according to time now" - and in another reading we are told that we keep Christmas about the right time - 24th, 25th of December, "as ye have your time now." (Still another mentions January 6th). Please explain the seeming contradictions.
(10:00:57) (@ron1) Well, I had trouble understanding this answer...
(10:01:43) (@ron1) A. All are correct according to the time from which some were recounted (akasha?). How many times have there been the reckoning? Take these into consideration with the period of events being followed in the information in the information being indicated. Just as there was the reckoning from the various groups for their individual activities, so was the information given as to the records from that source with which those seeking were concerned. 2067
(10:02:20) (@ron1) WISE MEN...
(10:02:34) (@ron1) Here we find as the Wise Men those that were seekers for the truth, for this happening; and in and through the application of those forces - as ye would term psychic - we find them coming to the place 'where the child was.' Or they were drawn as those that were giving the thanks for this Gift, this expression of a Soul seeking to show wayward man back to God 5749-7
(10:03:07) (@ron1) Well, they not just astrologers...
(10:03:24) (@ron1) (metaphysically) gold = material; frankincense = the ether or ethereal; myrrh = the healing force; or body, mind and soul. 5749-7
(10:03:42) (@ron1) Q. What were the names of the Wise Men, and what gift did each bring?
(10:03:55) (@ron1) A. Achlar was the Wise Man who brought incense to the child Jesus. ...he was in Persia as a wise man, counselor, and sage;... Using the mathematical methods which had been handed down through the ages, as well as the teachings of the Persians from the days of Zen, Og, and Uhjltd, he interpreted both the astrological and the natural laws.
(10:04:44) (@ron1) Thus, he was associated often with individuals who looked for the place and hour when that Great Purpose or Event was to be in the earth a literal experience. And he was one of the fabled Wise Men who came for the East, seeking during that period.
(10:05:06) (merri) were different calendars used when these dates were determined?
(10:05:23) (@ron1) Ashtucil was among those who were of the Wise Men...he came from the mountains of what is now known as Arabia and India....teaching that when the various forces of man are added to the creative forces necessary to keep the balance in the universal forces, the earth must bring forth that which would make man's balance of force with the Creative Energy as One. He brought the frankincense (256)
(10:06:16) (@ron1) As far as calendars are concerned, I'm lost...I tend to forget sinice I am not that much concerned with such origins...
(10:06:58) (@ron1) Now, the Ashtucil was some guy...:)
(10:07:12) (@ron1) Eucuo live during the periods of hardships and activities when the Master walked in the earth. And He was among the shepherds who heard the cry "Glory to God in the Highest. Peace on earth and good will to men." (1815)
(10:08:06) (@ron1) Hear it!...wow...that was some priveliage
(10:08:42) (@ron1) Such a one to be so worthy to hear a voice from above, from heaven...:)
(10:09:03) (@ron1) Q. In one answer we are told that the Wise Men came from Egypt, India and Gobi. Now we are told the Wise Man who brought the incense came from Persia? Which is correct?
(10:09:19) (@ron1) A. Both are correct. There was more than one visit of the Wise Men. One is a record of three Wise Men. There was the fourth, as well as the fifth. And then a second group. They came from Persia, India, Egypt, and also from Chaldea, Gobi, and what is now the Indo or Tao Land. (2067) ......END
(10:09:48) (@ron1) that is all I did so far...
(10:10:11) (merri) that's interesting about the wisemen
(10:11:35) (@ron1) I sent an email to the ARE requesting an astrological wheel drawn up for the time of Jesus' birth...They must have concluded something...besides, I can't calculate charts that far back yet
(10:12:02) (@ron1) I'm finished...WIS
(10:19:09) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Ron, thank you for sharing that Reading!
(10:20:11) (@host-WalksInSpirit) I think we'll stop here in the text and continue Saturday night.
(10:20:23) (merri) OK
(10:20:28) (maybell) okay
(10:20:29) (@ron1) ok...
(10:25:58) (@host-WalksInSpirit) I thank yall for coming tonight! And I hope yall enjoyed the chat!
(10:26:25) (@ron1) Yes, I did...
(10:26:48) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Remember: Saturday night, we'll pick up where we left off tonight!
(10:26:54) (merri) interesting info WIS....
(09:18:40) (@host-WalksInSpirit) I'll start us off with prayer and then we'll pick up where we left off Tuesday night.
(09:22:00) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Holy Father, we thank You for this opportunity to gather together and fellowship and seek You. Father, we thank You for all those here and all the friends who could not be here tonight. We ask special blessings on each one. We thank You for that Star that led the Wise Men to Bethlehem so long ago, and especially for Your Son whom You sent to become the pattern for us all, so we might have eternal life. In Your Holy Name, we pray these things. Nunwe
(09:22:29) (merri) Amen
(09:23:10) (@ron1) amen
(09:23:23) (Qrious) ameni
(09:24:07) (@host-WalksInSpirit) In 1999, astronomer Michael R. Molnar published the results of his investigations in the book The Star of Bethlehem: The Legacy of the Magi.
(09:24:27) (@host-WalksInSpirit) In contrast to other suggested events involving other constellations such as Leo, Virgo, or Pisces, Molnar had discovered evidence from multiple sources indicating that the stargazers of that time considered the constellation of Aries the Ram to be associated with the people of "Judea, Idumea, Samaria, Palestine, and Coele Syria", i.e. the lands ruled by King Herod.
(09:24:56) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Additional evidence indicated that a special occultation of Jupiter by the moon that occurred in the east in Aries on 17 April 6 BC signified the birth of a great Jewish king.
(09:25:17) (@host-WalksInSpirit) A spring date for the birth also corresponds with Luke's account of the birth in which shepherds were watching their flocks by night. In the spring, shepherds would be watching their flocks at night in order to be ready to aid in the birth of new lambs.
(09:25:50) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Regarding Matthew's statements that the star "went before" and "stood over", Molnar and others have maintained that the Greek words used there refer to Jupiter's retrogradation
(09:26:09) (@host-WalksInSpirit) (i.e. apparent but not actual retrograde motion) and stationing, respectively, as the movement of Jupiter against the background of the stars appears to reverse course for a time and then stops before resuming the normal progression.
(09:26:31) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Stargazers attached significance to these movements of the wandering stars (i.e. the planets).
(09:27:00) (@host-WalksInSpirit) A modern astrological interpretation of Matthew's account of the star, based on the Magi role as astrologers, claims to "decode" the Star of Bethlehem as a star configuration that was visible only to astrologers because the "star" was revealed in an astrological chart.
(09:27:23) (@host-WalksInSpirit) *The above article is from: article.gmane.org/gmane.culture.templar.rosemont/2137
(09:27:52) (@host-WalksInSpirit) The 2006 Passover Lunar Occultation of Spica Something is Going On Here By Steve Santini2/21/06
(09:28:19) (@host-WalksInSpirit) On the first moment of the annual Hebrew Passover Feast commencing the evening of April 13, 2006, there will be a discrete yet profoundly unique heavenly sign.
(09:28:35) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Over Jerusalem, as the sun sets in Pisces in the west, the full moon will rise in the east completely occulting the star Spica, in the sign of Virgo. Within the hour the event will have passed yet its message should be significant.
(09:29:33) (@host-WalksInSpirit) At 6:00 pm the occultation will be in its height with the star Spica behind the moon as viewed from Jerusalem. Six pm is the beginning of a new day in Hebrew culture. Six pm on April 13 is not only the beginning of a new day, it is the first of the seven days of the Passover Feast in 2006 and as such it is the beginning of the new Hebrew spiritual year.
(09:30:04) (@host-WalksInSpirit) The Feast of Passover begins with the remembrance of the Hebrew night in Egypt in which the angel of the Lord slew all the firstborn males of Egypt yet preserved the firstborn males of Israel because they had slain a male lamb, sprinkled its blood on their doorposts and eaten its roasted flesh for the evening meal as instructed by Moses.
(09:30:41) (@host-WalksInSpirit) What was the Star? On April 17, 6 BC two years before King Herod died Jupiter emerged in the east as a morning star in the sign of the Jews, Aries the Ram. The account in Matthew refers twice to the Star being in the east with good reasons. When the royal star of Zeus, the planet Jupiter, was in the east this was the most powerful time to confer kingships.
(09:31:11) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Furthermore, the Sun was in Aries where it is exalted. And the Moon was in very close conjunction with Jupiter in Aries. Modern calculations suggest that this was close enough to be an occultation (eclipse).
(09:31:35) (@host-WalksInSpirit) But the Sun's glare would have hidden that event. Saturn was also present which meant that the three rulers of Aries' trine (Sun, Jupiter, and Saturn) were present in Aries. Saturn and Jupiter were said to be attendants on the rising Sun, another regal aspect for astrologers. By modern expectations this is trivial, but for ancient stargazers this configuration was truly awesome. (p. 96-101)
(09:31:53) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Was the Star the lunar eclipse (occultation) of Jupiter? The lunar occultation of Jupiter on April 17, 6 BC was just one of several astrological conditions pointing to a king's birth. The greatness of a ruler or king was said to depend on the number of regal astrological effects at the time of birth.
(09:32:20) (@host-WalksInSpirit) This distinguished, say, a low level governor from an emperor. Knowing that lunar conjunctions (close approaches) with Jupiter were one condition for a king's birth, I looked for the closest conjunctions, namely occultations in the time frame biblical scholars claim as likely for the birth of Jesus.
(09:32:53) (@host-WalksInSpirit) I quickly focused on the occultation of April 17, 6 BC after realizing that Jupiter was also "in the east" in Aries.
(09:33:20) (@host-WalksInSpirit) "In the east" is mentioned twice by Matthew because astrologers such as the Magi said this was the most important time for Jupiter to produce future kings. Moreover, the Moon's incredible nearness to Jupiter amplified that power.
(09:33:50) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Keep in mind that astrologers of Roman times were making crude calculations of planetary positions to create horoscopes, but they could not predict eclipses or occultations as we now can. However, they could estimate when these were likely.
(09:34:09) (@host-WalksInSpirit) But keep in mind that the occultation was the key to finding this incredible day which has many important conditions pointing to the birth of not just a king, but a great king in Judea. (p. 64-84)
(09:34:53) (@host-WalksInSpirit) An occultation is an event that occurs when one object is hidden by another object that passes between it and the observer. The word is used in astronomy and can also be used in a general (non-astronomical) sense to describe when an object in the foreground occults (covers up) objects in the background.
(09:35:16) (@host-WalksInSpirit) In the general sense, occultation applies to the visual scene from low-flying aircraft and in Computer-Generated Image (CGI) technology, where foreground objects obscure distant ones in a dynamic way as the scene changes.
(09:35:39) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Astronomical events. These include transits and eclipses. The word transit refers to cases where the nearer object appears smaller in apparent size than the more distant object, such as transit of Mercury or Venus across the Sun's disk.
(09:35:57) (@host-WalksInSpirit) The word eclipse generally refers to those instances in which one object moves into the shadow of another. Each of these three events is the visible effect of a syzygy.
(09:36:27) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Every time an occultation occurs, an eclipse also occurs. Consider a so-called "eclipse" of the Sun by the Moon, as seen from Earth. In this event, the Moon physically moves between Earth and the Sun, thus blocking out a portion or all of the bright disk of the Sun.
(09:37:00) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Although this phenomenon is usually referred to as an "eclipse", this term is a misnomer, because the Moon is not eclipsing the Sun; instead the Moon is occulting the Sun. When the Moon occults the Sun, it casts a small shadow on the surface of the Earth, and therefore the Moon's shadow is partially eclipsing Earth.
(09:37:22) (@host-WalksInSpirit) So a so-called "solar eclipse" actually consists of (i) an occultation of the Sun by the Moon, as seen from Earth, and (ii) a partial eclipse of Earth by the Moon's shadow.
(09:37:46) (@host-WalksInSpirit) By contrast, an "eclipse" of the Moon is in fact a true eclipse: the Moon moves into the shadow cast back into space by Earth, and is said to be eclipsed by Earth's shadow.
(09:38:03) (@host-WalksInSpirit) As seen from the surface of the Moon, Earth passes directly between the Moon and the Sun, thus blocking or occulting the Sun as seen by a hypothetical lunar observer. Again, every eclipse also entails an occultation.
(09:38:16) (@host-WalksInSpirit) *The above article is from: article.gmane.org/gmane.culture.templar.rosemont/2137
(09:38:36) (@host-WalksInSpirit) "Jupiter underwent two occultations ("eclipses") by the Moon in Aries in 6 BC. Jupiter was the regal "star" that conferred kingships - a power that was amplified when Jupiter was in close conjunctions with the Moon.
(09:38:56) (@host-WalksInSpirit) The second occultation on April 17 coincided precisely when Jupiter was "in the east," a condition mentioned twice in the Biblical account about the Star of Bethlehem.
(09:39:15) (@host-WalksInSpirit) In August of that year Jupiter became stationary and then "went before" through Aries where it became stationary again on December 19, 6 BC. This is when the regal planet "stood over." - a secondary royal portent also described in the Bible.
(09:39:42) (@host-WalksInSpirit) In particular, there is confirmation from a Roman astrologer that the conditions of April 17, 6 BC were believed to herald the birth of a divine, immortal, and omnipotent person born under the sign of the Jews, which we now know was Aries the Ram.
(09:40:06) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Furthermore, the coins of Antioch and ancient astrological documents show that there was indeed a Star of Bethlehem as reported in the Biblical account of Matthew.
(09:40:23) (@host-WalksInSpirit) *The above article is from: article.gmane.org/gmane.culture.templar.rosemont/2137
(09:40:39) (@host-WalksInSpirit) An Astrological Look At The Star Of Bethlehem
(09:40:51) (@host-WalksInSpirit) By Nick Strobel
(09:41:05) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Introduction:
(09:41:22) (@host-WalksInSpirit) The Star of Bethlehem is a common topic of questions asked to astronomers, especially around Christmas time because it is a special astronomical phenomenon that occurred around the time of the birth of Jesus the Christ. What was the Star of Bethlehem?
(09:41:45) (@host-WalksInSpirit) The first reference to the Star of Bethlehem is in the New Testament of the Bible in the second chapter of the book called "Matthew." Here are the relevant verses from the New Revised Standard Version (NRSV, note that references are annotated as book chapter:verse(s))
(09:42:04) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Matthew 2:1--2: In the time of King Herod, after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea, wise men from the East came to Jerusalem, asking, "Where is the child who has been born king of the Jews? For we observed his star at its rising, and have come to pay him homage."
(09:42:32) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Matthew 2:7--10: Then Herod secretly called for the wise men and learned from them the exact time when the star had appeared. Then he sent them to Bethlehem, saying, "Go and search diligently for the child; and when you have found him, bring me word so that I may also go and pay him homage." When they had heard the king, they set out; and there, ahead of them, went the star that they had seen at its rising, until
(09:42:54) (@host-WalksInSpirit) it stopped over the place where the child was. When they saw that the star had stopped, they were overwhelmed with joy.
(09:43:02) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Matthew 2:12: And having been warned in a dream not to return to Herod, they left for their own country by another road.
(09:43:24) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Matthew 2:16: When Herod saw that he had been tricked by the wise men, he was infuriated, and he sent and killed all the children in and around Bethlehem who were two years old or under, according to the time that he had learned from the wise men.
(09:43:44) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Verses 12 & 16 give us some information as to the time of Jesus' birth. Another reference to the time of Jesus' birth is in the second chapter of the book called "Luke." Here are the relevant verses from the NRSV:
(09:44:10) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Luke 2:1--7: In those days a decree went out from Emperor Augustus that all the world should be registered. This was the first registration and was taken while Quirinius was governor of Syria. All went to their own towns to be registered. Joseph also went from the town of Nazareth in Galilee to Judea, to the city of David called Bethlehem, because he was descended from the house and family of David.
(09:44:24) (@host-WalksInSpirit) He went to be registered with Mary, to whom he was engaged and who was expecting a child. While they were there, the time came for her to deliver her child. And she gave birth to her firstborn son and wrapped him in bands of cloth, and laid him in a manger, because there was no place for them in the inn.
(09:44:55) (@host-WalksInSpirit) I will use the terms "C.E. = 'common era' (= A.D.)" and "B.C.E. = 'before the common era' (= B.C.)" when specifying dates.
(09:45:35) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Fixing The Date:
(09:45:52) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Though Jesus came to have a significant impact on the history and culture of western civilization, he was not considered important during his lifetime so the precise details of his birth were not recorded as they occurred.
(09:47:14) (@host-WalksInSpirit) The major non-biblical source of information about Jewish happenings around the time of Jesus' lifetime comes from the writings of the Jewish historian, Joseph ben Matthias (C.E. 37/38--around 100; also known as Flavius Josephus), called The Jewish War, written just after the fall of Jerusalem in C.E. 70, and Jewish Antiquities, written around C.E. 93--94.
(09:47:57) (@host-WalksInSpirit) However, Jesus receives just a brief mention in Josephus' writings and what is there is only about his adult life. The Roman historian Tacitus (around C.E. 56/57--around 118) mentions Jesus in only one sentence of his last large work, the Annals, and that sentence is about Jesus' death. The best information we have comes from the biblical books of Matthew and Luke that were written about 80--90 years after Jesus' birth.
(09:48:23) (@host-WalksInSpirit) The authors of Matthew and Luke did not write with our modern understanding of historical accuracy in mind and did not attach the same significance to historical, physical truth we do today.
(09:48:42) (@host-WalksInSpirit) This fact is not remembered by many Christians, agnostics, and atheists today and has led to many heated debates between them in the past few hundred years.
(09:49:11) (@host-WalksInSpirit) However, my intention is to provide the historical information that many modern inquirers are asking for. King Herod (aka "Herod the Great"), Emperor Augustus, and Quirinius were government officials in the Roman Empire so they have historical references with dates attached to them that are used as markers in the history timeline.
(09:49:40) (@host-WalksInSpirit) King Herod is also mentioned in the first chapter of Luke in reference to Jesus' cousin John the Baptizer who was approximately six months older than Jesus. Despite the differences in birth narratives given by the authors of Matthew and Luke, the fact that they do agree on Jesus being born during the reign of King Herod tells us that Jesus was very likely born sometime between 37--4 B.C.E.
(09:50:03) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Jesus was probably born just a few years before the end of Herod's reign. The "wise men from the East" pay homage to the "child" Jesus rather than to the "newborn" Jesus (contrast that with the Nativity scene of popular society today!).
(09:50:23) (@host-WalksInSpirit) This agrees with Herod's estimate of Jesus' age in his order to kill all the children (other translations narrow that to just the male children) in and around Bethlehem who were two years old or under.
(09:50:41) (@host-WalksInSpirit) The author of Matthew uses the same word to describe Jesus' age when he fled to Egypt with his parents and when he returned after Herod's death---he was a little child when he left and when he returned.
(09:50:45) (Qrious) well,,I have some info, that might help Walks. But thats for later.
(09:51:00) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Go ahead and share it with us, Qrious
(09:52:10) (Qrious) well... bare with me now... Elizabeths husband I forget his name.. was on duty during the month of Abaia... his Levitical duty when he prayed for a son.
(09:52:58) (Qrious) it was after his tenure... he went home to his wife ,, unable to speak but able to mate.
(09:54:29) (Qrious) so you count... from the month of Abaia.... 6 months hence... you will find that Christ was impregnated during the winter time period cause Mary went to visit he sister and the child lepted.. John that is.
(09:55:18) (Qrious) Jesus was conceived in the Dec.. months.. yet born during the Sept months... if memory serves.
(09:55:28) (Qrious) thats how I recalled learning it.
(09:56:08) (@ron1) If anyone is interested I have an Q & A exchange from the readings regarding the birth and the wise men...
(09:56:17) (Qrious) sure.
(09:56:25) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Well, now we just read that one of the Jupiter retrogrades that heralded a King happened in August.
(09:56:56) (@host-WalksInSpirit) I dunno how they calculated that, but they coulda been a little off
(09:57:02) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Sure, Ron
(09:57:09) (maybell) me too please ron ok?
(09:57:10) (Qrious) sept is close to aug.
(09:57:13) (@ron1) I should wait until you have finsihed...
(09:57:38) (@host-WalksInSpirit) No, go ahead! I encourage everyone to input!
(09:57:53) (Qrious) this is soo cool.
(09:58:11) (@ron1) I put this together this afternoon...
(09:58:14) (merri) Cayce said the birth was in March
(09:58:17) (@ron1) THE BIRTH OF JESUS
(09:58:31) (@host-WalksInSpirit) I just want to say while yall are all here that we'll be continuing this on Saturday night. I'll post it on the Schedule tonight so we won't forget.
(09:58:42) (@ron1) Just before midnight hour came, there was the birth of the Master. 5749-15
(09:58:48) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Yep, he did Merri
(09:58:52) (@ron1) ok...we now have the time of birth...:)
(09:59:33) (@ron1) Q. Do we celebrate Christmas at approximately the right time?
(09:59:48) (@ron1) A. (There is) not a great variation; for there have been many changes in the accounting of time, or accounting for the periods from the various times when time is counted - not for wrong; 24th, 25th of December, as ye have your time now. 5749-7
(10:00:24) (@ron1) Q. In one reading we are told that Jesus' birthday is on March 19 - "according to time now" - and in another reading we are told that we keep Christmas about the right time - 24th, 25th of December, "as ye have your time now." (Still another mentions January 6th). Please explain the seeming contradictions.
(10:00:57) (@ron1) Well, I had trouble understanding this answer...
(10:01:43) (@ron1) A. All are correct according to the time from which some were recounted (akasha?). How many times have there been the reckoning? Take these into consideration with the period of events being followed in the information in the information being indicated. Just as there was the reckoning from the various groups for their individual activities, so was the information given as to the records from that source with which those seeking were concerned. 2067
(10:02:20) (@ron1) WISE MEN...
(10:02:34) (@ron1) Here we find as the Wise Men those that were seekers for the truth, for this happening; and in and through the application of those forces - as ye would term psychic - we find them coming to the place 'where the child was.' Or they were drawn as those that were giving the thanks for this Gift, this expression of a Soul seeking to show wayward man back to God 5749-7
(10:03:07) (@ron1) Well, they not just astrologers...
(10:03:24) (@ron1) (metaphysically) gold = material; frankincense = the ether or ethereal; myrrh = the healing force; or body, mind and soul. 5749-7
(10:03:42) (@ron1) Q. What were the names of the Wise Men, and what gift did each bring?
(10:03:55) (@ron1) A. Achlar was the Wise Man who brought incense to the child Jesus. ...he was in Persia as a wise man, counselor, and sage;... Using the mathematical methods which had been handed down through the ages, as well as the teachings of the Persians from the days of Zen, Og, and Uhjltd, he interpreted both the astrological and the natural laws.
(10:04:44) (@ron1) Thus, he was associated often with individuals who looked for the place and hour when that Great Purpose or Event was to be in the earth a literal experience. And he was one of the fabled Wise Men who came for the East, seeking during that period.
(10:05:06) (merri) were different calendars used when these dates were determined?
(10:05:23) (@ron1) Ashtucil was among those who were of the Wise Men...he came from the mountains of what is now known as Arabia and India....teaching that when the various forces of man are added to the creative forces necessary to keep the balance in the universal forces, the earth must bring forth that which would make man's balance of force with the Creative Energy as One. He brought the frankincense (256)
(10:06:16) (@ron1) As far as calendars are concerned, I'm lost...I tend to forget sinice I am not that much concerned with such origins...
(10:06:58) (@ron1) Now, the Ashtucil was some guy...:)
(10:07:12) (@ron1) Eucuo live during the periods of hardships and activities when the Master walked in the earth. And He was among the shepherds who heard the cry "Glory to God in the Highest. Peace on earth and good will to men." (1815)
(10:08:06) (@ron1) Hear it!...wow...that was some priveliage
(10:08:42) (@ron1) Such a one to be so worthy to hear a voice from above, from heaven...:)
(10:09:03) (@ron1) Q. In one answer we are told that the Wise Men came from Egypt, India and Gobi. Now we are told the Wise Man who brought the incense came from Persia? Which is correct?
(10:09:19) (@ron1) A. Both are correct. There was more than one visit of the Wise Men. One is a record of three Wise Men. There was the fourth, as well as the fifth. And then a second group. They came from Persia, India, Egypt, and also from Chaldea, Gobi, and what is now the Indo or Tao Land. (2067) ......END
(10:09:48) (@ron1) that is all I did so far...
(10:10:11) (merri) that's interesting about the wisemen
(10:11:35) (@ron1) I sent an email to the ARE requesting an astrological wheel drawn up for the time of Jesus' birth...They must have concluded something...besides, I can't calculate charts that far back yet
(10:12:02) (@ron1) I'm finished...WIS
(10:19:09) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Ron, thank you for sharing that Reading!
(10:20:11) (@host-WalksInSpirit) I think we'll stop here in the text and continue Saturday night.
(10:20:23) (merri) OK
(10:20:28) (maybell) okay
(10:20:29) (@ron1) ok...
(10:25:58) (@host-WalksInSpirit) I thank yall for coming tonight! And I hope yall enjoyed the chat!
(10:26:25) (@ron1) Yes, I did...
(10:26:48) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Remember: Saturday night, we'll pick up where we left off tonight!
(10:26:54) (merri) interesting info WIS....
