Post by WalksInSpirit on Dec 11, 2007 23:32:46 GMT -5
The Star Of Bethlehem Study: 12-11-07
(09:09:21) (@autogreeter) Good Evening. The Red Path Chat Room welcomes you to The Star Of Bethlehem Study, Hosted By WalksInSpirit & Blu. Transcripts from The Star Of Bethlehem Study can be found here: redpath.proboards24.com/index.cgi?board=star
(09:23:40) (@host-Blu) Are you guys ready to start?
(09:24:20) (merri) sure
(09:24:23) (@host-Blu) ok
(09:24:25) (@ron1) ok
(09:24:33) (@host-Blu) Our Heavenly Father, we thank you for the gift of the Holy Child born in Bethlehem. As we seek to know your mysteries we ask for understanding and guidance. Amen
(09:24:46) (merri) Amen
(09:24:47) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Nunwe
(09:24:55) (@ron1) amen
(09:26:20) (@host-WalksInSpirit) We hope you enjoy this study on The Star Of Bethlehem. Please feel free to ask questions or make comments any time. It is our hope that you'll approach this material with an open mind, and that it will cause you to stop and really think about the miracle that took place there in Bethlehem in that stable. For this day, in the city of David, unto us a Savor is born. That Savior is Christ The Lord.
(09:28:46) (@host-WalksInSpirit) I'd like to start this chat series off by posting the words to one of my favorite Christmas songs. It's an old song, written by A. I. Phipps. It's called "Beautiful Star Of Bethlehem."
(09:29:05) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Oh Beautiful Star Of Bethlehem Shining afar through shadows dim Giving the Light for those who long have gone Guiding the Wise Men on their way Unto the place where Jesus lay
(09:29:39) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Oh Beautiful Star Of Bethlehem, shine on Oh Beautiful Star Of Bethlehem (Beautiful, Beautiful Star) Of Bethlehem (Star Of Bethlehem)
(09:29:55) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Shine upon us until the Glory dawns Give us the Light to light the way Unto the Land of Perfect Day
(09:30:11) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Oh Beautiful Star Of Bethlehem, shine on Oh Beautiful Star, the Hope of Life Guiding the pilgrims through the night Over the mountains till the break of dawn Into the Light of Perfect Day It will give out a Lovely Ray
(09:30:29) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Oh Beautiful Star of Bethlehem, shine on Oh Beautiful Star, the Hope of Rest For the Redeemed, the Good and the Blest Yonder in Glory when the Crown is won Where Jesus is now the Star Divine
(09:30:43) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Brighter and brighter He will Shine Oh Beautiful Star of Bethlehem, shine on
(09:31:07) (@host-WalksInSpirit) The Star of Bethlehem
(09:31:22) (@host-WalksInSpirit) A US astronomer claims he has found the first mention of the star of Bethlehem outside the Bible. The reference is in a 4th-century manuscript written by a Roman astrologer and Christian convert called Firmicus Maternus. Michael Molnar, formerly of Rutgers University in New Jersey, is the originator of the idea that the star of Bethlehem was not a spectacular astronomical event such as a supernova or a comet but an obscure astrological one.
(09:31:51) (@host-WalksInSpirit) The event would nevertheless have been of great significance to ancient Roman astrologers. After studying the symbolism on Roman coins, he concluded that the "star" was in fact a double eclipse of Jupiter in a rare astrological conjunction that occurred in Aries on 20 March, 6 BC, and again on 17 April, 6 BC (New Scientist magazine, 23 December 1995).
(09:32:19) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Molnar believed that Roman astrologers would have interpreted such an event as signifying the birth of a divine king in Judea. But he lacked proof. Now he says he has found it, in the Mathesis, a book written by Maternus in AD 334. Maternus described an astrological event involving an eclipse of Jupiter by the Moon in Aries, and said that it signified the birth of a divine king.
(09:32:45) (@host-WalksInSpirit) "Maternus did not mention Jesus' name," says Molnar. "But Roman astrology was a popular craze at the time and everyone reading the book would have known the reference was to Jesus and that the astrological event was the star of Bethlehem."
(09:33:06) (@host-WalksInSpirit) So why did Maternus not mention Jesus by name? According to Molnar, early Christians hated pagan beliefs and did not want to justify the Biblical story with astrological mumbo-jumbo. The idea that the stars govern our fate flew in the face of belief in a Christian God as the controlling force in the Universe.
(09:33:30) (@host-WalksInSpirit) "Being a pagan who had converted to Christianity during his lifetime, Firmicus was torn," says Molnar. "Hence his use of astrology to support the Christian story, but in a veiled way."
(09:33:48) (@host-WalksInSpirit) According to Molnar, it was essential to early Christians that the true nature of the star be hidden; otherwise theologians would be mired in debate about celestial influences that were not part of Christianity. So they buried the knowledge of the star's astrological roots and in time it was forgotten.
(09:34:08) (@host-WalksInSpirit) "I take Molnar's work quite seriously," says Owen Gingerich, a historian of astronomy at Harvard University.
(09:34:24) (@host-WalksInSpirit) "Anything he comes up with along these lines has to be considered as being very likely correct."
(09:34:39) (@host-WalksInSpirit) *The above article is from: omega.cohums.ohio-state.edu/mailing_lists/CLA-L/2006/04/0125.php
(09:35:04) (@host-WalksInSpirit) A lunar eclipse of Jupiter may have lured the Wise Men. Did this 'star' help the Magi to find the stable?
(09:35:21) (@host-WalksInSpirit) There came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, saying, where is he that is born King of the Jews? For we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him. [?]
(09:35:39) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Matthew II, 1-2
(09:35:54) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Michael Molnar's extraordinary adventure began with the purchase of an old Roman coin at a collector's fair several years ago. Ignoring a friend's advice that the coin was worth only $10, Dr Molnar, an astronomer at Rutgers University in New Jersey, paid the asking price of $50. It was rather fetching: one side bore the image of the Roman god Jupiter; on the other was etched a fine image of Aries the ram gazing at a star.
(09:36:16) (@host-WalksInSpirit) It would sit well with his collection of coins with astronomical themes.
(09:36:25) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Dr. Molnar later learned that the coin was struck in the Roman city of Antioch (in Turkey today), to mark the Romans' annexing of Judea in AD 6. According to ancient writings that Dr. Molnar dug up, the sign of Aries symbolized Judea. But Dr. Molnar's curiosity was aroused by the star. Convinced that a celestial event of significance must have happened in the constellation Aries as observed from Judea, Dr. Molnar began to pore over old star charts and astrological texts.
(09:37:05) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Little did he know that he would eventually stumble on what has been hailed as the most credible explanation yet for the Star of Bethlehem, the biblical event that guided the Three Wise Men to the birth of Jesus Christ two millennia ago.
(09:37:22) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Even astronomers noted for their cynicism at this seasonal chestnut have declared themselves impressed by Dr. Molnar's research, contained in a new book The Star of Bethlehem: The Legacy of the Magi (Rutgers University Press), by Dr Molnar.[?]
(09:37:42) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Professor Owen Gingerich, an astronomy historian at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics, has called it "the most original and important contribution of the 20th century" to knowledge of the Star of Bethlehem.
(09:38:03) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Professor Bradley Schaefer, a Yale astronomer, agrees, adding:
(09:38:23) (@host-WalksInSpirit) "Molnar has found the Star of Bethlehem. I believe him and I'm embarrassed. This material has been around for centuries, and no one looked at it until now."
(09:38:57) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Dr. Molnar ran a computer program to simulate the movements in the heavens around the time of Christ's birth, which is thought to have taken place between 8 BC and 4 BC. He paid particular attention to what was happening in the part of the sky occupied by the Aries constellation. One date, above all others, stood out as being particularly special:
(09:39:18) (@host-WalksInSpirit) April 17, 6 BC, when there was a lunar eclipse of Jupiter, which has long been considered the "king" of planets. So the Moon passing in front of Jupiter (then thought to be a star) could easily have symbolized a divine birth to the Magi, popularly thought to have been astrologers.
(09:39:33) (@host-WalksInSpirit) And because Aries represented Judea, the eclipse would have indicated that this new ruler would be found there. Dr. Molnar says:
(09:39:51) (@host-WalksInSpirit) "Everybody knows from the Bible that the star rose in the East, which is what Jupiter did in Aries on April 17, 6BC. This date agrees well with estimates of Christ's birth."
(09:40:18) (@host-WalksInSpirit) That year, there were actually two lunar eclipses of Jupiter: one on April 17, another on March 20. Reinforcing the power of the astrological event was the fact that the Sun, too, was in the constellation Aries. Dr. Molnar also found some Roman records suggesting that the planetary arrangement on April 17 would be fitting for the birth of a ruler.
(09:40:40) (@host-WalksInSpirit) The idea that the Star of Bethlehem was a planetary phenomenon, rather than a rare celestial firecracker such as a supernova or comet, is an interesting one. Christians might like to think that the birth of their Savior would have been heralded by an auspicious occurrence, such as a comet, but records kept by Chinese astronomers around that time are frustratingly devoid of such events.
(09:40:57) (@host-WalksInSpirit) A comet is recorded in 5 BC, which accords with estimates for Christ's birth, but the Bible implies that only the Magi saw the Star of Bethlehem. If the star was a dazzler, it should have been recorded as such in the Bible, and the Magi would not have been the only audience.
(09:41:17) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Dr. Molnar has tried to put himself in the shoes of ancient astronomers, which is why he thinks that planets hold the key. Planetary details would have been perceived as portentous only by those well-versed in the movements of the heavens. Knowledge of these points of light (the distinction between stars and planets was not known) would have allowed men to divine the future.
(09:41:41) (@host-WalksInSpirit) In other words, the men would have been experts in astronomy and astrology. That would explain why the Jews in Judea-not known for either-would have been oblivious to the important birth.
(09:41:57) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Dr. Molnar also notes that comets were viewed as bad omens-he, along with many others who have investigated the mystery of the Star of Bethlehem, finds this reason enough to reject a comet as a candidate. A shooting star is unlikely to have been the guiding star-the Bible records that the star hung over the newborn.
(09:42:14) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Of course, neither Dr. Molnar nor any astronomer will ever know the truth about the Star of Bethlehem. Many Christians prefer to think of the event as a miracle, without record in astronomical charts. But how fascinating that a tiny coin from two millennia ago may have inspired the solution to this festive mystery.
(09:42:32) (@host-WalksInSpirit) *The above article is from: omega.cohums.ohio-state.edu/mailing_lists/CLA-L/2006/04/0125.php
(09:42:46) (@host-WalksInSpirit) "For unless thy numerology may lead in the same direction as the star of Astrology led the Wise to Bethlehem, ye stumble in thy way. For know it was true that the days were numbered, yea, His star had risen - and these were one; and they become again, as they ever were and ever will be, those things that show, that lead, the way." - Edgar Cayce Reading 1402-1
(09:43:14) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Text Of Reading 587-6:
(09:43:32) (@host-WalksInSpirit) 1. Ready for questions.
(09:43:46) (@host-WalksInSpirit) 2. (Q) When and where in Palestine was Jesus born?
(09:44:01) (@host-WalksInSpirit) (A) In Bethlehem of Judea, in that grotto not marked in the present but called a stable; rather in the den where shelter was had did the ENTITY, to be sure, look upon the child Jesus.
(09:45:59) (@host-WalksInSpirit) 3. (Q) When was He born?
(09:46:32) (@host-WalksInSpirit) (A) On the 19th day of what would now be termed March.
(09:47:08) (merri) and what about the April date?
(09:47:25) (@host-Blu) the April date for?
(09:47:39) (@host-Blu) the star ?
(09:47:39) (merri) that was mentioned in the post
(09:47:44) (@ron1) and what calendar?
(09:47:44) (@host-WalksInSpirit) I'd like to point out here that the computer program that Dr. Molnar used could have been off a little, counting for the discrepency between Cayce's answer and Dr. Molnar's date.
(09:48:20) (@ron1) Julien or Gregarian
(09:48:37) (@host-Blu) it mentions two dates - <Host-WalksInSpirit> The event would nevertheless have been of great significance to ancient Roman astrologers. After studying the symbolism on Roman coins, he concluded that the "star" was in fact a double eclipse of Jupiter in a rare astrological conjunction that occurred in Aries on 20 March, 6 BC, and again on 17 April, 6 BC (New Scientist magazine, 23 December 1995
(09:49:35) (@host-Blu) The Cayce quote accounts for that
(09:49:42) (@host-WalksInSpirit) I think Julien, Ron
(09:49:45) (@ron1) Astrologers that I have recently read have concluded the conjunction...perhpas the 2nd of three, occurred in the sign of Pisces
(09:50:24) (Lory-GG) Would not the 19th of March been on the cusp of Aries, Ron?
(09:50:52) (@ron1) but, I suppose its the calendar problem that has always bothered me since I'm not at all have such understanding
(09:51:14) (@host-WalksInSpirit) 4. (Q) And the year?
(09:51:33) (@host-WalksInSpirit) (A) Dependent upon from what calendar or from what period ye would judge. From the Julian calendar, the year 4. From the Hebrew or the Mosaic calendar, the year 1899.
(09:52:09) (@host-WalksInSpirit) 5. (Q) What was my a$$ociation with the Wise Men that came seeking the child, and what influence does that have on me now?
(09:52:37) (@host-WalksInSpirit) (A) As indicated. The entity was among those first chosen to be presented before the Lord as POSSIBLE choices or channels through which those great blessings were to come. So, when the birth came, the NATURAL associations were such that the entity was drawn to and about those activities of the parents.
(09:53:01) (@host-WalksInSpirit) And when the Wise Men of the East, or from India, Egypt, the Gobi, came to Jerusalem where there had been the gathering of those that had been of that consecrated group, the ENTITY went WITH the Wise Men.
(09:53:15) (@host-WalksInSpirit) For it AWAKENED WITHIN the entity then that there had been the fulfillment, the completion of that which had been impressed upon the entity in the years of its preparation.
(09:53:34) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Hence in the present these become, as it were, the words that make for changes in the thought and the activity of the entity TOWARDS those experiences as with that Son.
(09:53:57) (@host-WalksInSpirit) 6. (Q) What were my experiences with the shepherds who came seeking the Master, and describe my understanding of their experience at that time.
(09:54:22) (@host-WalksInSpirit) (A) As indicated by the records, and as seen here, the shepherds came from the very fact that all nature, all the heavenly hosts, proclaimed that glorious period for man.
(09:54:45) (@host-WalksInSpirit) And as the entity came with the Wise Men to do honor, to give of their substance, the entity - realizing within self that self, in body, in mind, had been dedicated to that service to man, that self might be a channel of blessing - found an awakening in the praise of that given by those shepherds who had EXPERIENCED that cry of the heavenly hosts, "Behold a son is given, and his name is wonderful, counselor!"
(09:55:03) (Lory-GG) It ocurs to me that the person who kissed baby Jesus on the forehead could have also been the inkeeper's daughter.
(09:55:08) (@host-WalksInSpirit) This awoke within the entity that as may be found in the present, how all nature - the face in the water, the dew upon the grass, the tint and the beauty of the rose, the song of the stars, the mourn of the wind, all proclaim - NOW - the mighty words of a merciful, a loving God. - Edgar Cayce Reading 587-6
(09:23:40) (@host-Blu) Are you guys ready to start?
(09:24:20) (merri) sure
(09:24:23) (@host-Blu) ok
(09:24:25) (@ron1) ok
(09:24:33) (@host-Blu) Our Heavenly Father, we thank you for the gift of the Holy Child born in Bethlehem. As we seek to know your mysteries we ask for understanding and guidance. Amen
(09:24:46) (merri) Amen
(09:24:47) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Nunwe
(09:24:55) (@ron1) amen
(09:26:20) (@host-WalksInSpirit) We hope you enjoy this study on The Star Of Bethlehem. Please feel free to ask questions or make comments any time. It is our hope that you'll approach this material with an open mind, and that it will cause you to stop and really think about the miracle that took place there in Bethlehem in that stable. For this day, in the city of David, unto us a Savor is born. That Savior is Christ The Lord.
(09:28:46) (@host-WalksInSpirit) I'd like to start this chat series off by posting the words to one of my favorite Christmas songs. It's an old song, written by A. I. Phipps. It's called "Beautiful Star Of Bethlehem."
(09:29:05) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Oh Beautiful Star Of Bethlehem Shining afar through shadows dim Giving the Light for those who long have gone Guiding the Wise Men on their way Unto the place where Jesus lay
(09:29:39) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Oh Beautiful Star Of Bethlehem, shine on Oh Beautiful Star Of Bethlehem (Beautiful, Beautiful Star) Of Bethlehem (Star Of Bethlehem)
(09:29:55) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Shine upon us until the Glory dawns Give us the Light to light the way Unto the Land of Perfect Day
(09:30:11) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Oh Beautiful Star Of Bethlehem, shine on Oh Beautiful Star, the Hope of Life Guiding the pilgrims through the night Over the mountains till the break of dawn Into the Light of Perfect Day It will give out a Lovely Ray
(09:30:29) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Oh Beautiful Star of Bethlehem, shine on Oh Beautiful Star, the Hope of Rest For the Redeemed, the Good and the Blest Yonder in Glory when the Crown is won Where Jesus is now the Star Divine
(09:30:43) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Brighter and brighter He will Shine Oh Beautiful Star of Bethlehem, shine on
(09:31:07) (@host-WalksInSpirit) The Star of Bethlehem
(09:31:22) (@host-WalksInSpirit) A US astronomer claims he has found the first mention of the star of Bethlehem outside the Bible. The reference is in a 4th-century manuscript written by a Roman astrologer and Christian convert called Firmicus Maternus. Michael Molnar, formerly of Rutgers University in New Jersey, is the originator of the idea that the star of Bethlehem was not a spectacular astronomical event such as a supernova or a comet but an obscure astrological one.
(09:31:51) (@host-WalksInSpirit) The event would nevertheless have been of great significance to ancient Roman astrologers. After studying the symbolism on Roman coins, he concluded that the "star" was in fact a double eclipse of Jupiter in a rare astrological conjunction that occurred in Aries on 20 March, 6 BC, and again on 17 April, 6 BC (New Scientist magazine, 23 December 1995).
(09:32:19) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Molnar believed that Roman astrologers would have interpreted such an event as signifying the birth of a divine king in Judea. But he lacked proof. Now he says he has found it, in the Mathesis, a book written by Maternus in AD 334. Maternus described an astrological event involving an eclipse of Jupiter by the Moon in Aries, and said that it signified the birth of a divine king.
(09:32:45) (@host-WalksInSpirit) "Maternus did not mention Jesus' name," says Molnar. "But Roman astrology was a popular craze at the time and everyone reading the book would have known the reference was to Jesus and that the astrological event was the star of Bethlehem."
(09:33:06) (@host-WalksInSpirit) So why did Maternus not mention Jesus by name? According to Molnar, early Christians hated pagan beliefs and did not want to justify the Biblical story with astrological mumbo-jumbo. The idea that the stars govern our fate flew in the face of belief in a Christian God as the controlling force in the Universe.
(09:33:30) (@host-WalksInSpirit) "Being a pagan who had converted to Christianity during his lifetime, Firmicus was torn," says Molnar. "Hence his use of astrology to support the Christian story, but in a veiled way."
(09:33:48) (@host-WalksInSpirit) According to Molnar, it was essential to early Christians that the true nature of the star be hidden; otherwise theologians would be mired in debate about celestial influences that were not part of Christianity. So they buried the knowledge of the star's astrological roots and in time it was forgotten.
(09:34:08) (@host-WalksInSpirit) "I take Molnar's work quite seriously," says Owen Gingerich, a historian of astronomy at Harvard University.
(09:34:24) (@host-WalksInSpirit) "Anything he comes up with along these lines has to be considered as being very likely correct."
(09:34:39) (@host-WalksInSpirit) *The above article is from: omega.cohums.ohio-state.edu/mailing_lists/CLA-L/2006/04/0125.php
(09:35:04) (@host-WalksInSpirit) A lunar eclipse of Jupiter may have lured the Wise Men. Did this 'star' help the Magi to find the stable?
(09:35:21) (@host-WalksInSpirit) There came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, saying, where is he that is born King of the Jews? For we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him. [?]
(09:35:39) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Matthew II, 1-2
(09:35:54) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Michael Molnar's extraordinary adventure began with the purchase of an old Roman coin at a collector's fair several years ago. Ignoring a friend's advice that the coin was worth only $10, Dr Molnar, an astronomer at Rutgers University in New Jersey, paid the asking price of $50. It was rather fetching: one side bore the image of the Roman god Jupiter; on the other was etched a fine image of Aries the ram gazing at a star.
(09:36:16) (@host-WalksInSpirit) It would sit well with his collection of coins with astronomical themes.
(09:36:25) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Dr. Molnar later learned that the coin was struck in the Roman city of Antioch (in Turkey today), to mark the Romans' annexing of Judea in AD 6. According to ancient writings that Dr. Molnar dug up, the sign of Aries symbolized Judea. But Dr. Molnar's curiosity was aroused by the star. Convinced that a celestial event of significance must have happened in the constellation Aries as observed from Judea, Dr. Molnar began to pore over old star charts and astrological texts.
(09:37:05) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Little did he know that he would eventually stumble on what has been hailed as the most credible explanation yet for the Star of Bethlehem, the biblical event that guided the Three Wise Men to the birth of Jesus Christ two millennia ago.
(09:37:22) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Even astronomers noted for their cynicism at this seasonal chestnut have declared themselves impressed by Dr. Molnar's research, contained in a new book The Star of Bethlehem: The Legacy of the Magi (Rutgers University Press), by Dr Molnar.[?]
(09:37:42) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Professor Owen Gingerich, an astronomy historian at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics, has called it "the most original and important contribution of the 20th century" to knowledge of the Star of Bethlehem.
(09:38:03) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Professor Bradley Schaefer, a Yale astronomer, agrees, adding:
(09:38:23) (@host-WalksInSpirit) "Molnar has found the Star of Bethlehem. I believe him and I'm embarrassed. This material has been around for centuries, and no one looked at it until now."
(09:38:57) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Dr. Molnar ran a computer program to simulate the movements in the heavens around the time of Christ's birth, which is thought to have taken place between 8 BC and 4 BC. He paid particular attention to what was happening in the part of the sky occupied by the Aries constellation. One date, above all others, stood out as being particularly special:
(09:39:18) (@host-WalksInSpirit) April 17, 6 BC, when there was a lunar eclipse of Jupiter, which has long been considered the "king" of planets. So the Moon passing in front of Jupiter (then thought to be a star) could easily have symbolized a divine birth to the Magi, popularly thought to have been astrologers.
(09:39:33) (@host-WalksInSpirit) And because Aries represented Judea, the eclipse would have indicated that this new ruler would be found there. Dr. Molnar says:
(09:39:51) (@host-WalksInSpirit) "Everybody knows from the Bible that the star rose in the East, which is what Jupiter did in Aries on April 17, 6BC. This date agrees well with estimates of Christ's birth."
(09:40:18) (@host-WalksInSpirit) That year, there were actually two lunar eclipses of Jupiter: one on April 17, another on March 20. Reinforcing the power of the astrological event was the fact that the Sun, too, was in the constellation Aries. Dr. Molnar also found some Roman records suggesting that the planetary arrangement on April 17 would be fitting for the birth of a ruler.
(09:40:40) (@host-WalksInSpirit) The idea that the Star of Bethlehem was a planetary phenomenon, rather than a rare celestial firecracker such as a supernova or comet, is an interesting one. Christians might like to think that the birth of their Savior would have been heralded by an auspicious occurrence, such as a comet, but records kept by Chinese astronomers around that time are frustratingly devoid of such events.
(09:40:57) (@host-WalksInSpirit) A comet is recorded in 5 BC, which accords with estimates for Christ's birth, but the Bible implies that only the Magi saw the Star of Bethlehem. If the star was a dazzler, it should have been recorded as such in the Bible, and the Magi would not have been the only audience.
(09:41:17) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Dr. Molnar has tried to put himself in the shoes of ancient astronomers, which is why he thinks that planets hold the key. Planetary details would have been perceived as portentous only by those well-versed in the movements of the heavens. Knowledge of these points of light (the distinction between stars and planets was not known) would have allowed men to divine the future.
(09:41:41) (@host-WalksInSpirit) In other words, the men would have been experts in astronomy and astrology. That would explain why the Jews in Judea-not known for either-would have been oblivious to the important birth.
(09:41:57) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Dr. Molnar also notes that comets were viewed as bad omens-he, along with many others who have investigated the mystery of the Star of Bethlehem, finds this reason enough to reject a comet as a candidate. A shooting star is unlikely to have been the guiding star-the Bible records that the star hung over the newborn.
(09:42:14) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Of course, neither Dr. Molnar nor any astronomer will ever know the truth about the Star of Bethlehem. Many Christians prefer to think of the event as a miracle, without record in astronomical charts. But how fascinating that a tiny coin from two millennia ago may have inspired the solution to this festive mystery.
(09:42:32) (@host-WalksInSpirit) *The above article is from: omega.cohums.ohio-state.edu/mailing_lists/CLA-L/2006/04/0125.php
(09:42:46) (@host-WalksInSpirit) "For unless thy numerology may lead in the same direction as the star of Astrology led the Wise to Bethlehem, ye stumble in thy way. For know it was true that the days were numbered, yea, His star had risen - and these were one; and they become again, as they ever were and ever will be, those things that show, that lead, the way." - Edgar Cayce Reading 1402-1
(09:43:14) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Text Of Reading 587-6:
(09:43:32) (@host-WalksInSpirit) 1. Ready for questions.
(09:43:46) (@host-WalksInSpirit) 2. (Q) When and where in Palestine was Jesus born?
(09:44:01) (@host-WalksInSpirit) (A) In Bethlehem of Judea, in that grotto not marked in the present but called a stable; rather in the den where shelter was had did the ENTITY, to be sure, look upon the child Jesus.
(09:45:59) (@host-WalksInSpirit) 3. (Q) When was He born?
(09:46:32) (@host-WalksInSpirit) (A) On the 19th day of what would now be termed March.
(09:47:08) (merri) and what about the April date?
(09:47:25) (@host-Blu) the April date for?
(09:47:39) (@host-Blu) the star ?
(09:47:39) (merri) that was mentioned in the post
(09:47:44) (@ron1) and what calendar?
(09:47:44) (@host-WalksInSpirit) I'd like to point out here that the computer program that Dr. Molnar used could have been off a little, counting for the discrepency between Cayce's answer and Dr. Molnar's date.
(09:48:20) (@ron1) Julien or Gregarian
(09:48:37) (@host-Blu) it mentions two dates - <Host-WalksInSpirit> The event would nevertheless have been of great significance to ancient Roman astrologers. After studying the symbolism on Roman coins, he concluded that the "star" was in fact a double eclipse of Jupiter in a rare astrological conjunction that occurred in Aries on 20 March, 6 BC, and again on 17 April, 6 BC (New Scientist magazine, 23 December 1995
(09:49:35) (@host-Blu) The Cayce quote accounts for that
(09:49:42) (@host-WalksInSpirit) I think Julien, Ron
(09:49:45) (@ron1) Astrologers that I have recently read have concluded the conjunction...perhpas the 2nd of three, occurred in the sign of Pisces
(09:50:24) (Lory-GG) Would not the 19th of March been on the cusp of Aries, Ron?
(09:50:52) (@ron1) but, I suppose its the calendar problem that has always bothered me since I'm not at all have such understanding
(09:51:14) (@host-WalksInSpirit) 4. (Q) And the year?
(09:51:33) (@host-WalksInSpirit) (A) Dependent upon from what calendar or from what period ye would judge. From the Julian calendar, the year 4. From the Hebrew or the Mosaic calendar, the year 1899.
(09:52:09) (@host-WalksInSpirit) 5. (Q) What was my a$$ociation with the Wise Men that came seeking the child, and what influence does that have on me now?
(09:52:37) (@host-WalksInSpirit) (A) As indicated. The entity was among those first chosen to be presented before the Lord as POSSIBLE choices or channels through which those great blessings were to come. So, when the birth came, the NATURAL associations were such that the entity was drawn to and about those activities of the parents.
(09:53:01) (@host-WalksInSpirit) And when the Wise Men of the East, or from India, Egypt, the Gobi, came to Jerusalem where there had been the gathering of those that had been of that consecrated group, the ENTITY went WITH the Wise Men.
(09:53:15) (@host-WalksInSpirit) For it AWAKENED WITHIN the entity then that there had been the fulfillment, the completion of that which had been impressed upon the entity in the years of its preparation.
(09:53:34) (@host-WalksInSpirit) Hence in the present these become, as it were, the words that make for changes in the thought and the activity of the entity TOWARDS those experiences as with that Son.
(09:53:57) (@host-WalksInSpirit) 6. (Q) What were my experiences with the shepherds who came seeking the Master, and describe my understanding of their experience at that time.
(09:54:22) (@host-WalksInSpirit) (A) As indicated by the records, and as seen here, the shepherds came from the very fact that all nature, all the heavenly hosts, proclaimed that glorious period for man.
(09:54:45) (@host-WalksInSpirit) And as the entity came with the Wise Men to do honor, to give of their substance, the entity - realizing within self that self, in body, in mind, had been dedicated to that service to man, that self might be a channel of blessing - found an awakening in the praise of that given by those shepherds who had EXPERIENCED that cry of the heavenly hosts, "Behold a son is given, and his name is wonderful, counselor!"
(09:55:03) (Lory-GG) It ocurs to me that the person who kissed baby Jesus on the forehead could have also been the inkeeper's daughter.
(09:55:08) (@host-WalksInSpirit) This awoke within the entity that as may be found in the present, how all nature - the face in the water, the dew upon the grass, the tint and the beauty of the rose, the song of the stars, the mourn of the wind, all proclaim - NOW - the mighty words of a merciful, a loving God. - Edgar Cayce Reading 587-6
