Post by WalksInSpirit on Oct 14, 2006 22:38:12 GMT -5
Part Four: The Face Of Mexico: 10-14-06
(09:29:27) (docyabut) what the topic tonight?
(09:29:48) (Host-WalksInSpirit) "The Great Migration: Part Four: The Face Of Mexico"
(09:30:16) (Host-WalksInSpirit) I'll get us started with a prayer.
(09:30:57) (docyabut) yes it is interesting however you know that it was the story of the atlas
(09:32:10) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Holy Father, we thank You for this time of fellowship together. Father, we ask that You'd touch each one here with Your peace, love, and wisdom. In Your Holy Name, we ask these things. Nunwe
(09:32:18) (Cris) Amen
(09:32:24) (Roz) Amen
(09:32:27) (merri) Amen
(09:32:54) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Part Four:
(09:32:54) (Host-WalksInSpirit) The Face Of Mexico
(09:33:13) (Host-WalksInSpirit) It has been said that the “Face Of Mexico is an Indian Face.” Only about one-twentieth of the population has no stain of Indian blood in its veins, and many of its millions of people are pure-blood Indians, living in the semi-seclusions of the hills and jungles.
(09:33:41) (Host-WalksInSpirit) No doubt scores of wandering bands of dispossessed red-skinned and brown-skinned peoples came into Mexico before and after the sinking of Lemuria and the last islands of Atlantis, but few of these bands rose to prominence and they left little evidence by which they can be identified to this day.
(09:34:06) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Some of them are even more mysterious than the Olmecs of perhaps 1,000 B.C., and their neighboring Totonacs in the Vera Cruz area of the Gulf Of Mexico.
(09:34:35) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Building sites of the Olmecs have been located in the strip of land between the Gulf Of Tehuantepec and the Gulf Of Campeche, and in the Olmec center of La Venta there is a pyramid of clay one hundred and three feet high, presumably built by them. Four great stone heads have also been unearthed near La Venta and it is with these strange sculptures that the Olmecs are most often associated.
(09:35:04) (Host-WalksInSpirit) A fifth head, over nine feet high and weighing twenty-five tons, is the largest of the lot. Like the others, it shows a puffy-faced, rather infantile image, with Negroid characteristics.
(09:35:32) (Host-WalksInSpirit) They pecked the stone for the huge heads from a rim of mountains many miles from their central locations and brought the great blocks of basalt to their present sites by some unknown method. Their stonework is unique and not duplicated by other tribes.
(09:35:56) (Host-WalksInSpirit) It is supposed that the humanistic heads and the fierce ocelots represent Olmec gods and deities, and that they were too heavy to be taken along when the Olmecs left Mexico.
(09:36:37) (Host-WalksInSpirit) They may have been a peaceful people, not inclined to pick quarrels with their neighbors; or perhaps they were tremendously large people, of whom others were afraid.
(09:37:05) (Host-WalksInSpirit) A cave, discovered in 1967 by two amateur anthropologist's about 75 miles from Acapulco, indicates that the Olmecs did not confine their activities to the eastern coast. The New York Times reported on April 14, 1967 that in this cave "what are believed to be the oldest paintings in the New World on rock walls."
(09:37:36) (Host-WalksInSpirit) They are thought to have been painted between 400 B. C. and 800 B. C. by Olmec artists.
(09:37:55) (Host-WalksInSpirit) The cave is located in the Sierra Madre del Sur in the state of Guerrero. It is almost a mile long and consists of a series of caves with a subterranean lake at the far end.
(09:38:12) (Host-WalksInSpirit) The paintings are on walls about 2/3 of the way into the cave. One of the paintings shows a jaguar leaping at a snake, another is of two men apparently engaged in some ritual.
(09:38:32) (Host-WalksInSpirit) An interesting feature of this painting is that the larger, figure five feet and five inches tall, wears a plumed head dress of the Quetzalcoatl type, while another painting is of a plumed serpent.
(09:38:56) (Host-WalksInSpirit) The man with the plumed head dress also wears a many-colored garment with a black pelt draped over one shoulder, and reminiscent of the ocelot worship of some of the Central Americans, this man wears spotted leggings and gauntlets. Some of the colors are still intact; red, yellow, green, black, and white were used.
(09:39:28) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Long before the Olmecs came there were primitive people living in the highlands of Mexico. Because of discovered skulls and bones of mastodons, in which primitive spears are imbedded, it is known that early hunters, depending upon game for their food, once roamed that region.
(09:39:55) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Remains of “Texapan Man” were found near Santa Isabel Iztapan at the edge of a lake in the Valley Of Mexico, where fossil remains of the great beasts have been located. The man’s skeleton is thought to date back to 9,000 B.C.
(09:41:04) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Stone implements and projectile points intermingled with the bones of the animals upon which the Indians feasted, indicate that Pleistocene mammals and primitive and primitive man lived in the Americas long before the birth of Christ.
(09:41:05) (docyabut) any one watch digging for the truth the people of south ameria came from a cave they tought was the under world
(09:41:45) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Mastodon skulls and bones have also been found in Arizona and on the “Field Of The Giants” in Columbia. In the latter instance it is thought that the land was lifted by a catastrophe and that the animals, used to a tropical climate, could not withstand the sudden coldness and rarefied air.
(09:42:06) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Although the great pachyderms no longer roamed the area, one of the immense buildings at Chichen Itza – The House of God – is ornamented with stone representations of them. The building is said to have been built by members of the family of King Can and all the elephant heads wore crowns, indicating royalty.
(09:42:29) (Host-WalksInSpirit) The chief center of the ceremonial activities of the Zapotecs was on the high section of the land near Oaxaca. There, at Monte Alban, the style of art is not like that of the more eastern-located tribes. Some features of temple decoration, however, are reminiscent of the Olmec style.
(09:42:43) (Qrious) reminds me of Babar .. lol
(09:42:52) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Deep layers of refuse in the Valley Of Mexico have been found, and the tools and pottery discovered there indicate that many different tribes occupied that site during several centuries.
(09:43:14) (Host-WalksInSpirit) One of the oldest shrines erected by primitives of the Mexican highlands is only a few miles from Mexico City, but was in use long before the fabled Tenochtitlan rose from the marsh. It is the ancient ceremonial mound called Cuicuilco – “temple of singing and dancing.”
(09:43:34) (Host-WalksInSpirit) It fell into ruins many centuries ago, and remained hidden in layers of pumice, ash, dirt, and stones until evacuated by Byron Cummings, noted archeologist of the University Of Arizona.
(09:43:54) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Round, stone-faced, and all of sixty feet high, the old mound had an inclined approach, or ramp, about eighty-six feet wide, which ran from the base to the last terrace that led to the altar. It had withstood alternate flooding and volcanic assault since pre-classic times.
(09:44:26) (Host-WalksInSpirit) The lava came from 12,600 – foot Mt. Ajusco, in a nearby range of mountains, and the final flow of from ten to thirty-foot depths was from a small crater – Xitli – on the flank of the big mountain. The flow created the present pedregal, which is being dug up to provide building material for Mexico City buildings.
(09:44:56) (Host-WalksInSpirit) At the time, it covered several small settlements and caused the people to flee from the area, but when it engulfed the lower third of Cuicuilco it served as a benefactor, preserving in the great hulk pottery, stone knives, and other tools.
(09:45:18) (Host-WalksInSpirit) The farthest north of the temple ruins of Mexico is La Quemada, near the city of Zacatecas. Platforms, walls and terraces, as well as columns of a temple have been discovered at that site.
(09:45:42) (Host-WalksInSpirit) No doubt as time passes, mounds in Michoacan and other Mexican states will be excavated and their treasures of archeological history revealed for the enjoyment and enlightenment of scholars.
(09:46:06) (Host-WalksInSpirit) From the fetishes, potsherds and ornaments found in the diggings at La Quemada, it is thought that the original buildings were erected by Otomi or Tarascan Indians. Both tribes are still represented in Mexico, although they have not assumed a high place in the civilization.
(09:46:32) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Dates that run into mythological figures are said to have been found in Palenque, the city supposedly founded by the Atlantean wise man, teacher and astronomer, Quetzalcoatl, the Feathered Serpent, whose homeland was the sinking last island of Atlantis.
(09:46:56) (Host-WalksInSpirit) . (Kukulcan is synonymous with Quetzalcoatl. Kukul means Quetzal and can means serpent, as does coatl. With the Quetzal bird representing the sky and the serpent symbolizing the earth, the name seems to be saying that this man was earth and sky combined into one person of tremendous power.)
(09:47:29) (Host-WalksInSpirit) W. Scott-Elliot, in “Atlantis And Lemuria,” advances the theory that the Toltecs were an ancient race that had ruled Atlantis for thousands of years with magnificence, and that thousands of years later representatives of this race ruled with like magnificence in Peru and Mexico.
(09:47:53) (Host-WalksInSpirit) The Peruvian empire, at its peak, he avers, was but a faint echo of the golden age of the Toltecs on their Atlantis motherland.
(09:48:14) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Another authority claims that the Aztecs borrowed a symbolism from and a religion from the Toltecs, after conquering them and taking over the fruits of their intelligence and industry.
(09:48:40) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Teotihuacan was the first and mightiest of Central Mexico’s temple cities, and it was here that the Toltecs left their clearest marks. In the turning of the wheel of time they reached here high mark of the cycle.
(09:49:00) (Host-WalksInSpirit) From the supposition that Quetzalcoatl “loved his vassals, the Toltecs,” it may be concluded that he – great leader and learned man that he was – taught them their unsurpassed building skills.
(09:49:31) (Host-WalksInSpirit) The Toltec connection with the famed Feathered Serpent is further stressed in the “Codex Vindobonesis” in which it is stated that Quetzalcoatl was given four temples by the God-Above-All:
(09:49:49) (Host-WalksInSpirit) The Temple Of The Morning Star, - Venus – his own symbol; the round Temple Of The Moon; The Healing Temple and the Temple Of The Knot Of Xipe, The Flayed One, open only to those of Toltec descent.
(09:50:18) (Host-WalksInSpirit) The Toltecs were called the “reed people” and were said to have been of Chichimec stock. Their ancient site was Tollan, a place of reeds and bushes, and was near the present site of Tula.
(09:50:43) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Old records say the voice of Quetzalcoatl could be heard for miles around, coming from Tollan; perhaps meaning that authority of the area was vested in the town whose leaders carried on the teachings of the great man from the east.
(09:50:59) (Host-WalksInSpirit) In both the Nahua and the Maya languages Tula, or Tollan, signified a Holy place, or a place of authority.
(09:51:33) (Host-WalksInSpirit) The last king of the Toltecs, named Topiltzin, so revered Quetzalcoatl that he adopted the name, although the Toltecs had reached their peak of greatness in the tenth century, long before his time.
(09:51:56) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Ce Acatl Topiltzin, son of Mixcoatl, The Cloud Serpent, is credited with founding Tollan and the Toltec empire. He, as had many others, took the name Quetzalcoatl, honoring the ancient leader.
(09:52:14) (Host-WalksInSpirit) During his reign some of the most beautiful and massive temples in all of Middle America came into being in the Valley Of Mexico, and the gigantic Atlantean statues at Tula are also credited to him.
(09:52:37) (Host-WalksInSpirit) The Toltecs have been described in historical volumes as a people drifting through Mexico, guided by an astrologer-priest named Huemac, which may have been another name for Quetzalcoatl, who seems to have appeared in many guises.
(09:53:04) (Host-WalksInSpirit) After they established Tollan they elected a king, who was to serve fifty-two years, a major time unit employed by them.
(09:53:27) (Host-WalksInSpirit) In the great Valley Of Mexico, near a large navigable lake called Texcoco, they began construction of their city of Teotihuacan, now being brought, little by little into full perspective.
(09:53:56) (Host-WalksInSpirit) How greatly they planned – the immense span of their perception – is shown by the area they chose and the groundwork they did. The whole two-mile by three-and-a-half mile city site was smoothed, then paved with consecutive floors of cementlike plaster.
(09:54:17) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Within this huge rectangle they built The Pyramid Of The Moon, the much larger Pyramid Of The Sun, The Temple Of Quetzalcoatl, and the Citadel. Along the esplanade to the Temples were the simple homes of the workers, the builders, upon whose skills depended the outcome of the master plan.
(09:54:46) (Host-WalksInSpirit) How the people lived seems of small interest compared to the manner in which they built the stately temples. All other buildings are dwarfed by the Temple Of The Sun. This truncated pyramid measures almost 700 feet at its base, and rises in four tiers to a height of more than 200 feet.
(09:54:48) (merri) amazing!!!
(09:55:19) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Originally the exterior was faced with stone, which was then plastered. The beauty of the whole was enhanced by the broad steps that led from terrace to terrace up to the sacrificial altar that crowned the stupendous pile of dirt and stone.
(09:55:45) (Host-WalksInSpirit) The Temple Of Quetzalcoatl, though very small in comparison to the temples of the moon and sun, was magnificently wrought, so that even today the onlooker is awed by the carved stone heads of serpents that, with the interspersed heads of a rain god, decorate the facade of the entire temple.
(09:56:13) (Host-WalksInSpirit) At one time the serpents were vividly painted with reds and other colors and the eyes were made of glittering black obsidian. Between the projecting heads there were carved representations of Caribbean sea shells and ears of corn, and the whole and the whole temple was artistically and masterfully constructed with the simple materials of the country.
(09:56:32) (Host-WalksInSpirit) I bet that was something to see!
(09:57:04) (Qrious) must have been colorful.
(09:57:10) (Host-WalksInSpirit) For some unknown reason the entire sacred area was rebuilt, after the first major area of construction. During this time many of the sculptures were broken up or partially destroyed, but the ten-foot-tall Goddess Of The Waters was recovered and now graces the halls of the National Museum.
(09:57:43) (Host-WalksInSpirit) The Toltecs emerged as master builders, only to see their city become a place of desolation, the pyramids buried under the dust of centuries and the worshippers fled. For a long time they had lived a life of cultural unity, the year 300 A.D. being given as the peak of their greatness.
(09:58:18) (Host-WalksInSpirit) They had celebrated the New Fire Ceremony at the end of each fifty-two year cycle and seen slaves offered up as sacrifices to the gods. They had been taught by the poet-philosopher, Nezahualcoyotl, the ruins of whose palace and baths are still to be seen not far from present-day Texcoco.
(09:59:32) (Host-WalksInSpirit) They had known good foods and satisfying religious activity, but with changing times all this fell away and they scattered, some of them drifting into the Mayan communities, and some venturing northward.
(09:59:55) (Host-WalksInSpirit) But a new regime was soon to make itself felt. END
(10:00:11) (merri) awwwwww
(10:00:17) (Host-WalksInSpirit) LOL
(10:00:29) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Ok, I'll tell you who the new regime is!
(10:00:30) (Cris) That was interesting
(10:00:32) (docyabut) The Maya of Central America were the greatest pyramid builders of the ancient world. The Egyptians built less than a 100 pyramids--the Maya built thousands. But what was the significance of these towering structures? Determined to solve the meaning of the Mayan pyramids, host and explorer Josh Bernstein sets out on a remarkable journey that takes him from the great Mayan cities of Southern Mexico to the hinterland of Guatemala. Josh explores ancient to
(10:00:42) (Host-WalksInSpirit) it's the Aztecs
(10:00:49) (Qrious) wouldn't some of the people. .. they speak about be the students of the man of the east?.. instead of Him with a differing name?
(10:00:50) (merri) it never fails to amaze me what they built!
(10:01:21) (docyabut) The pyramids mimic the original mountain (their garden of eden of sorts), the passageway in the pyramid represents the the way leading to the underworld. Josh Bernstein finds the original sacred site but it has no pyramids !, why ??, it is the original mountain, so no pyramid needed ! It also has underwater caves where the fresh and salt water mix, creating a distorted blurry view, representing the doorway to the underworld. It was a fascinating show a
(10:01:22) (Cris) Our city planners could take lessons from them
(10:01:37) (Host-WalksInSpirit) For real, Cris!
(10:03:33) (Host-WalksInSpirit) When they turned to the blood sacrificing, though, their society fell apart.
(10:03:56) (Qrious) not a good way to win over supporters... lol
(10:04:06) (Host-WalksInSpirit) That was the case with most Central American & South American peoples.
(10:04:14) (Host-WalksInSpirit) LOL Qrious
(10:04:49) (Qrious) good way to keep people who would speak against the practice in line though.. lol'
(10:05:22) (Bill) cut the beating hearts out of 45,000 worriors in a couple wk. span
(10:05:47) (merri) Yikes!!
(10:05:48) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Wheeeeew! Bill!
(10:05:51) (Qrious) well.. civilization.. did have its drawbacks.. lol
(10:06:24) (Qrious) Population control I would think?
(10:06:44) (Cris) Dissenters within the ranks
(10:06:53) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Quetzalcoatl brought it to a stop when he came, but it resumed when he left and didn't return.
(10:06:55) (Bill) it was thought they may have been trying to impress their rivals
(10:07:56) (Host-WalksInSpirit) The blood sacrifices started with the Sons Of Belial who came to the area from Atlantis.
(10:08:13) (merri) I would be very impressed Bill!
(10:08:45) (Qrious) wouldn't it be easier to have them join thier ranks?... and increase their numbers?
(10:09:05) (Bill) Q it was their own worriors
(10:09:27) (Qrious) that does not sound too bright..
(10:09:49) (Bill) the end result wasn't it back fired on them
(10:10:02) (Qrious) no warriors means risks of invasion wouldn't it?
(10:10:37) (Qrious) lots of dead people.. lots of flies.. disease .. pestilence probably?
(10:11:17) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Well, that's how the Aztecs will take over power.
(10:11:54) (Bill) it was a very large civilizatrion :o) and these were sacrifices to the god's cutting out the hearts and holding them up while still beating then putting them in a bowl of some sort
(10:12:53) (Bill) it was a doc. on acient civilizations a few wks. ago
(10:14:10) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Open Chat! I thank yall for coming and participating!
(10:14:29) (Qrious) thanks for the class Walks.. lots to keep track of.
(10:14:33) (merri) thankyou for the info WIS
(10:14:39) (Bill) they were trying to determ how long it took to preform this task useing obsidian knives.
(10:14:43) (Cris) Thanks WIS
(10:15:04) (Richard) Saw that Bill.
(10:15:12) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Yall are welcome!
(10:15:13) (Cris) Obsidian has been used for medical tools by ancient tribes
(10:15:41) (docyabut) Sons Of Belial were the ones that worship many gods and the children of the the law of one is the one god
(10:16:30) (WalksInSpirit) Right, Doc. And the Sons Of Belial introduced blood sacrificing in the Americas.
(10:40:42) (Bill) L&L Folks TY W_E
(09:29:48) (Host-WalksInSpirit) "The Great Migration: Part Four: The Face Of Mexico"
(09:30:16) (Host-WalksInSpirit) I'll get us started with a prayer.
(09:30:57) (docyabut) yes it is interesting however you know that it was the story of the atlas
(09:32:10) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Holy Father, we thank You for this time of fellowship together. Father, we ask that You'd touch each one here with Your peace, love, and wisdom. In Your Holy Name, we ask these things. Nunwe
(09:32:18) (Cris) Amen
(09:32:24) (Roz) Amen
(09:32:27) (merri) Amen
(09:32:54) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Part Four:
(09:32:54) (Host-WalksInSpirit) The Face Of Mexico
(09:33:13) (Host-WalksInSpirit) It has been said that the “Face Of Mexico is an Indian Face.” Only about one-twentieth of the population has no stain of Indian blood in its veins, and many of its millions of people are pure-blood Indians, living in the semi-seclusions of the hills and jungles.
(09:33:41) (Host-WalksInSpirit) No doubt scores of wandering bands of dispossessed red-skinned and brown-skinned peoples came into Mexico before and after the sinking of Lemuria and the last islands of Atlantis, but few of these bands rose to prominence and they left little evidence by which they can be identified to this day.
(09:34:06) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Some of them are even more mysterious than the Olmecs of perhaps 1,000 B.C., and their neighboring Totonacs in the Vera Cruz area of the Gulf Of Mexico.
(09:34:35) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Building sites of the Olmecs have been located in the strip of land between the Gulf Of Tehuantepec and the Gulf Of Campeche, and in the Olmec center of La Venta there is a pyramid of clay one hundred and three feet high, presumably built by them. Four great stone heads have also been unearthed near La Venta and it is with these strange sculptures that the Olmecs are most often associated.
(09:35:04) (Host-WalksInSpirit) A fifth head, over nine feet high and weighing twenty-five tons, is the largest of the lot. Like the others, it shows a puffy-faced, rather infantile image, with Negroid characteristics.
(09:35:32) (Host-WalksInSpirit) They pecked the stone for the huge heads from a rim of mountains many miles from their central locations and brought the great blocks of basalt to their present sites by some unknown method. Their stonework is unique and not duplicated by other tribes.
(09:35:56) (Host-WalksInSpirit) It is supposed that the humanistic heads and the fierce ocelots represent Olmec gods and deities, and that they were too heavy to be taken along when the Olmecs left Mexico.
(09:36:37) (Host-WalksInSpirit) They may have been a peaceful people, not inclined to pick quarrels with their neighbors; or perhaps they were tremendously large people, of whom others were afraid.
(09:37:05) (Host-WalksInSpirit) A cave, discovered in 1967 by two amateur anthropologist's about 75 miles from Acapulco, indicates that the Olmecs did not confine their activities to the eastern coast. The New York Times reported on April 14, 1967 that in this cave "what are believed to be the oldest paintings in the New World on rock walls."
(09:37:36) (Host-WalksInSpirit) They are thought to have been painted between 400 B. C. and 800 B. C. by Olmec artists.
(09:37:55) (Host-WalksInSpirit) The cave is located in the Sierra Madre del Sur in the state of Guerrero. It is almost a mile long and consists of a series of caves with a subterranean lake at the far end.
(09:38:12) (Host-WalksInSpirit) The paintings are on walls about 2/3 of the way into the cave. One of the paintings shows a jaguar leaping at a snake, another is of two men apparently engaged in some ritual.
(09:38:32) (Host-WalksInSpirit) An interesting feature of this painting is that the larger, figure five feet and five inches tall, wears a plumed head dress of the Quetzalcoatl type, while another painting is of a plumed serpent.
(09:38:56) (Host-WalksInSpirit) The man with the plumed head dress also wears a many-colored garment with a black pelt draped over one shoulder, and reminiscent of the ocelot worship of some of the Central Americans, this man wears spotted leggings and gauntlets. Some of the colors are still intact; red, yellow, green, black, and white were used.
(09:39:28) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Long before the Olmecs came there were primitive people living in the highlands of Mexico. Because of discovered skulls and bones of mastodons, in which primitive spears are imbedded, it is known that early hunters, depending upon game for their food, once roamed that region.
(09:39:55) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Remains of “Texapan Man” were found near Santa Isabel Iztapan at the edge of a lake in the Valley Of Mexico, where fossil remains of the great beasts have been located. The man’s skeleton is thought to date back to 9,000 B.C.
(09:41:04) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Stone implements and projectile points intermingled with the bones of the animals upon which the Indians feasted, indicate that Pleistocene mammals and primitive and primitive man lived in the Americas long before the birth of Christ.
(09:41:05) (docyabut) any one watch digging for the truth the people of south ameria came from a cave they tought was the under world
(09:41:45) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Mastodon skulls and bones have also been found in Arizona and on the “Field Of The Giants” in Columbia. In the latter instance it is thought that the land was lifted by a catastrophe and that the animals, used to a tropical climate, could not withstand the sudden coldness and rarefied air.
(09:42:06) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Although the great pachyderms no longer roamed the area, one of the immense buildings at Chichen Itza – The House of God – is ornamented with stone representations of them. The building is said to have been built by members of the family of King Can and all the elephant heads wore crowns, indicating royalty.
(09:42:29) (Host-WalksInSpirit) The chief center of the ceremonial activities of the Zapotecs was on the high section of the land near Oaxaca. There, at Monte Alban, the style of art is not like that of the more eastern-located tribes. Some features of temple decoration, however, are reminiscent of the Olmec style.
(09:42:43) (Qrious) reminds me of Babar .. lol
(09:42:52) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Deep layers of refuse in the Valley Of Mexico have been found, and the tools and pottery discovered there indicate that many different tribes occupied that site during several centuries.
(09:43:14) (Host-WalksInSpirit) One of the oldest shrines erected by primitives of the Mexican highlands is only a few miles from Mexico City, but was in use long before the fabled Tenochtitlan rose from the marsh. It is the ancient ceremonial mound called Cuicuilco – “temple of singing and dancing.”
(09:43:34) (Host-WalksInSpirit) It fell into ruins many centuries ago, and remained hidden in layers of pumice, ash, dirt, and stones until evacuated by Byron Cummings, noted archeologist of the University Of Arizona.
(09:43:54) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Round, stone-faced, and all of sixty feet high, the old mound had an inclined approach, or ramp, about eighty-six feet wide, which ran from the base to the last terrace that led to the altar. It had withstood alternate flooding and volcanic assault since pre-classic times.
(09:44:26) (Host-WalksInSpirit) The lava came from 12,600 – foot Mt. Ajusco, in a nearby range of mountains, and the final flow of from ten to thirty-foot depths was from a small crater – Xitli – on the flank of the big mountain. The flow created the present pedregal, which is being dug up to provide building material for Mexico City buildings.
(09:44:56) (Host-WalksInSpirit) At the time, it covered several small settlements and caused the people to flee from the area, but when it engulfed the lower third of Cuicuilco it served as a benefactor, preserving in the great hulk pottery, stone knives, and other tools.
(09:45:18) (Host-WalksInSpirit) The farthest north of the temple ruins of Mexico is La Quemada, near the city of Zacatecas. Platforms, walls and terraces, as well as columns of a temple have been discovered at that site.
(09:45:42) (Host-WalksInSpirit) No doubt as time passes, mounds in Michoacan and other Mexican states will be excavated and their treasures of archeological history revealed for the enjoyment and enlightenment of scholars.
(09:46:06) (Host-WalksInSpirit) From the fetishes, potsherds and ornaments found in the diggings at La Quemada, it is thought that the original buildings were erected by Otomi or Tarascan Indians. Both tribes are still represented in Mexico, although they have not assumed a high place in the civilization.
(09:46:32) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Dates that run into mythological figures are said to have been found in Palenque, the city supposedly founded by the Atlantean wise man, teacher and astronomer, Quetzalcoatl, the Feathered Serpent, whose homeland was the sinking last island of Atlantis.
(09:46:56) (Host-WalksInSpirit) . (Kukulcan is synonymous with Quetzalcoatl. Kukul means Quetzal and can means serpent, as does coatl. With the Quetzal bird representing the sky and the serpent symbolizing the earth, the name seems to be saying that this man was earth and sky combined into one person of tremendous power.)
(09:47:29) (Host-WalksInSpirit) W. Scott-Elliot, in “Atlantis And Lemuria,” advances the theory that the Toltecs were an ancient race that had ruled Atlantis for thousands of years with magnificence, and that thousands of years later representatives of this race ruled with like magnificence in Peru and Mexico.
(09:47:53) (Host-WalksInSpirit) The Peruvian empire, at its peak, he avers, was but a faint echo of the golden age of the Toltecs on their Atlantis motherland.
(09:48:14) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Another authority claims that the Aztecs borrowed a symbolism from and a religion from the Toltecs, after conquering them and taking over the fruits of their intelligence and industry.
(09:48:40) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Teotihuacan was the first and mightiest of Central Mexico’s temple cities, and it was here that the Toltecs left their clearest marks. In the turning of the wheel of time they reached here high mark of the cycle.
(09:49:00) (Host-WalksInSpirit) From the supposition that Quetzalcoatl “loved his vassals, the Toltecs,” it may be concluded that he – great leader and learned man that he was – taught them their unsurpassed building skills.
(09:49:31) (Host-WalksInSpirit) The Toltec connection with the famed Feathered Serpent is further stressed in the “Codex Vindobonesis” in which it is stated that Quetzalcoatl was given four temples by the God-Above-All:
(09:49:49) (Host-WalksInSpirit) The Temple Of The Morning Star, - Venus – his own symbol; the round Temple Of The Moon; The Healing Temple and the Temple Of The Knot Of Xipe, The Flayed One, open only to those of Toltec descent.
(09:50:18) (Host-WalksInSpirit) The Toltecs were called the “reed people” and were said to have been of Chichimec stock. Their ancient site was Tollan, a place of reeds and bushes, and was near the present site of Tula.
(09:50:43) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Old records say the voice of Quetzalcoatl could be heard for miles around, coming from Tollan; perhaps meaning that authority of the area was vested in the town whose leaders carried on the teachings of the great man from the east.
(09:50:59) (Host-WalksInSpirit) In both the Nahua and the Maya languages Tula, or Tollan, signified a Holy place, or a place of authority.
(09:51:33) (Host-WalksInSpirit) The last king of the Toltecs, named Topiltzin, so revered Quetzalcoatl that he adopted the name, although the Toltecs had reached their peak of greatness in the tenth century, long before his time.
(09:51:56) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Ce Acatl Topiltzin, son of Mixcoatl, The Cloud Serpent, is credited with founding Tollan and the Toltec empire. He, as had many others, took the name Quetzalcoatl, honoring the ancient leader.
(09:52:14) (Host-WalksInSpirit) During his reign some of the most beautiful and massive temples in all of Middle America came into being in the Valley Of Mexico, and the gigantic Atlantean statues at Tula are also credited to him.
(09:52:37) (Host-WalksInSpirit) The Toltecs have been described in historical volumes as a people drifting through Mexico, guided by an astrologer-priest named Huemac, which may have been another name for Quetzalcoatl, who seems to have appeared in many guises.
(09:53:04) (Host-WalksInSpirit) After they established Tollan they elected a king, who was to serve fifty-two years, a major time unit employed by them.
(09:53:27) (Host-WalksInSpirit) In the great Valley Of Mexico, near a large navigable lake called Texcoco, they began construction of their city of Teotihuacan, now being brought, little by little into full perspective.
(09:53:56) (Host-WalksInSpirit) How greatly they planned – the immense span of their perception – is shown by the area they chose and the groundwork they did. The whole two-mile by three-and-a-half mile city site was smoothed, then paved with consecutive floors of cementlike plaster.
(09:54:17) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Within this huge rectangle they built The Pyramid Of The Moon, the much larger Pyramid Of The Sun, The Temple Of Quetzalcoatl, and the Citadel. Along the esplanade to the Temples were the simple homes of the workers, the builders, upon whose skills depended the outcome of the master plan.
(09:54:46) (Host-WalksInSpirit) How the people lived seems of small interest compared to the manner in which they built the stately temples. All other buildings are dwarfed by the Temple Of The Sun. This truncated pyramid measures almost 700 feet at its base, and rises in four tiers to a height of more than 200 feet.
(09:54:48) (merri) amazing!!!
(09:55:19) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Originally the exterior was faced with stone, which was then plastered. The beauty of the whole was enhanced by the broad steps that led from terrace to terrace up to the sacrificial altar that crowned the stupendous pile of dirt and stone.
(09:55:45) (Host-WalksInSpirit) The Temple Of Quetzalcoatl, though very small in comparison to the temples of the moon and sun, was magnificently wrought, so that even today the onlooker is awed by the carved stone heads of serpents that, with the interspersed heads of a rain god, decorate the facade of the entire temple.
(09:56:13) (Host-WalksInSpirit) At one time the serpents were vividly painted with reds and other colors and the eyes were made of glittering black obsidian. Between the projecting heads there were carved representations of Caribbean sea shells and ears of corn, and the whole and the whole temple was artistically and masterfully constructed with the simple materials of the country.
(09:56:32) (Host-WalksInSpirit) I bet that was something to see!
(09:57:04) (Qrious) must have been colorful.
(09:57:10) (Host-WalksInSpirit) For some unknown reason the entire sacred area was rebuilt, after the first major area of construction. During this time many of the sculptures were broken up or partially destroyed, but the ten-foot-tall Goddess Of The Waters was recovered and now graces the halls of the National Museum.
(09:57:43) (Host-WalksInSpirit) The Toltecs emerged as master builders, only to see their city become a place of desolation, the pyramids buried under the dust of centuries and the worshippers fled. For a long time they had lived a life of cultural unity, the year 300 A.D. being given as the peak of their greatness.
(09:58:18) (Host-WalksInSpirit) They had celebrated the New Fire Ceremony at the end of each fifty-two year cycle and seen slaves offered up as sacrifices to the gods. They had been taught by the poet-philosopher, Nezahualcoyotl, the ruins of whose palace and baths are still to be seen not far from present-day Texcoco.
(09:59:32) (Host-WalksInSpirit) They had known good foods and satisfying religious activity, but with changing times all this fell away and they scattered, some of them drifting into the Mayan communities, and some venturing northward.
(09:59:55) (Host-WalksInSpirit) But a new regime was soon to make itself felt. END
(10:00:11) (merri) awwwwww
(10:00:17) (Host-WalksInSpirit) LOL
(10:00:29) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Ok, I'll tell you who the new regime is!
(10:00:30) (Cris) That was interesting
(10:00:32) (docyabut) The Maya of Central America were the greatest pyramid builders of the ancient world. The Egyptians built less than a 100 pyramids--the Maya built thousands. But what was the significance of these towering structures? Determined to solve the meaning of the Mayan pyramids, host and explorer Josh Bernstein sets out on a remarkable journey that takes him from the great Mayan cities of Southern Mexico to the hinterland of Guatemala. Josh explores ancient to
(10:00:42) (Host-WalksInSpirit) it's the Aztecs
(10:00:49) (Qrious) wouldn't some of the people. .. they speak about be the students of the man of the east?.. instead of Him with a differing name?
(10:00:50) (merri) it never fails to amaze me what they built!
(10:01:21) (docyabut) The pyramids mimic the original mountain (their garden of eden of sorts), the passageway in the pyramid represents the the way leading to the underworld. Josh Bernstein finds the original sacred site but it has no pyramids !, why ??, it is the original mountain, so no pyramid needed ! It also has underwater caves where the fresh and salt water mix, creating a distorted blurry view, representing the doorway to the underworld. It was a fascinating show a
(10:01:22) (Cris) Our city planners could take lessons from them
(10:01:37) (Host-WalksInSpirit) For real, Cris!
(10:03:33) (Host-WalksInSpirit) When they turned to the blood sacrificing, though, their society fell apart.
(10:03:56) (Qrious) not a good way to win over supporters... lol
(10:04:06) (Host-WalksInSpirit) That was the case with most Central American & South American peoples.
(10:04:14) (Host-WalksInSpirit) LOL Qrious
(10:04:49) (Qrious) good way to keep people who would speak against the practice in line though.. lol'
(10:05:22) (Bill) cut the beating hearts out of 45,000 worriors in a couple wk. span
(10:05:47) (merri) Yikes!!
(10:05:48) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Wheeeeew! Bill!
(10:05:51) (Qrious) well.. civilization.. did have its drawbacks.. lol
(10:06:24) (Qrious) Population control I would think?
(10:06:44) (Cris) Dissenters within the ranks
(10:06:53) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Quetzalcoatl brought it to a stop when he came, but it resumed when he left and didn't return.
(10:06:55) (Bill) it was thought they may have been trying to impress their rivals
(10:07:56) (Host-WalksInSpirit) The blood sacrifices started with the Sons Of Belial who came to the area from Atlantis.
(10:08:13) (merri) I would be very impressed Bill!
(10:08:45) (Qrious) wouldn't it be easier to have them join thier ranks?... and increase their numbers?
(10:09:05) (Bill) Q it was their own worriors
(10:09:27) (Qrious) that does not sound too bright..
(10:09:49) (Bill) the end result wasn't it back fired on them
(10:10:02) (Qrious) no warriors means risks of invasion wouldn't it?
(10:10:37) (Qrious) lots of dead people.. lots of flies.. disease .. pestilence probably?
(10:11:17) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Well, that's how the Aztecs will take over power.
(10:11:54) (Bill) it was a very large civilizatrion :o) and these were sacrifices to the god's cutting out the hearts and holding them up while still beating then putting them in a bowl of some sort
(10:12:53) (Bill) it was a doc. on acient civilizations a few wks. ago
(10:14:10) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Open Chat! I thank yall for coming and participating!
(10:14:29) (Qrious) thanks for the class Walks.. lots to keep track of.
(10:14:33) (merri) thankyou for the info WIS
(10:14:39) (Bill) they were trying to determ how long it took to preform this task useing obsidian knives.
(10:14:43) (Cris) Thanks WIS
(10:15:04) (Richard) Saw that Bill.
(10:15:12) (Host-WalksInSpirit) Yall are welcome!
(10:15:13) (Cris) Obsidian has been used for medical tools by ancient tribes
(10:15:41) (docyabut) Sons Of Belial were the ones that worship many gods and the children of the the law of one is the one god
(10:16:30) (WalksInSpirit) Right, Doc. And the Sons Of Belial introduced blood sacrificing in the Americas.
(10:40:42) (Bill) L&L Folks TY W_E
